Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sh*t together”

Ok, let’s get serious here. A popular professor at NYU’s Stern School of Business replied to a student’s email in a way that is part jerkface but mostly, part sage life advice. Deadspin reports that a student walked into the 1st day of class an hour late and the professor told her to leave & come back to the next class. In the comments section, most people were surprised to find themselves siding with the professor, citing topics like the rudeness of interrupting 80 people who pay full tuition to the foolishness of  “shopping” 3 classes in the same time slot. The professor actually XXXX’d out the student’s name and emailed it to all of his students! See below.. what’s your take on this?

Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:15:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Brand Strategy Feedback

Prof. Galloway,

I would like to discuss a matter with you that bothered me. Yesterday evening I entered your 6pm Brand Strategy class approximately 1 hour late. As I entered the room, you quickly dismissed me, saying that I would need to leave and come back to the next class. After speaking with several students who are taking your class, they explained that you have a policy stating that students who arrive more than 15 minutes late will not be admitted to class.

As of yesterday evening, I was interested in three different Monday night classes that all occurred simultaneously. In order to decide which class to select, my plan for the evening was to sample all three and see which one I like most. Since I had never taken your class, I was unaware of your class policy. I was disappointed that you dismissed me from class considering (1) there is no way I could have been aware of your policy and (2) considering that it was the first day of evening classes and I arrived 1 hour late (not a few minutes), it was more probable that my tardiness was due to my desire to sample different classes rather than sheer complacency.

I have already registered for another class but I just wanted to be open and provide my opinion on the matter.

Regards,
xxxx


xxxx
MBA 2010 Candidate
NYU Stern School of Business
xxxx.nyu.edu
xxx-xxx-xxxx

The Reply:

—— Forwarded Message ——-
From: scott@stern.nyu.edu
To: “xxxx”
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:34:02 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Brand Strategy Feedback

xxxx:

Thanks for the feedback. I, too, would like to offer some feedback.

Just so I’ve got this straight…you started in one class, left 15-20 minutes into it (stood up, walked out mid-lecture), went to another class (walked in 20 minutes late), left that class (again, presumably, in the middle of the lecture), and then came to my class. At that point (walking in an hour late) I asked you to come to the next class which “bothered” you.

Correct?

You state that, having not taken my class, it would be impossible to know our policy of not allowing people to walk in an hour late. Most risk analysis offers that in the face of substantial uncertainty, you opt for the more conservative path or hedge your bet (e.g., do not show up an hour late until you know the professor has an explicit policy for tolerating disrespectful behavior, check with the TA before class, etc.). I hope the lottery winner that is your recently crowned Monday evening Professor is teaching Judgement and Decision Making or Critical Thinking.

In addition, your logic effectively means you cannot be held accountable for any code of conduct before taking a class. For the record, we also have no stated policy against bursting into show tunes in the middle of class, urinating on desks or taking that revolutionary hair removal system for a spin. However, xxxx, there is a baseline level of decorum (i.e., manners) that we expect of grown men and women who the admissions department have deemed tomorrow’s business leaders.

xxxx, let me be more serious for a moment. I do not know you, will not know you and have no real affinity or animosity for you. You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop. It’s with this context I hope you register pause…REAL pause xxxx and take to heart what I am about to tell you:

xxxx, get your shit together.

Getting a good job, working long hours, keeping your skills relevant, navigating the politics of an organization, finding a live/work balance…these are all really hard, xxxx. In contrast, respecting institutions, having manners, demonstrating a level of humility…these are all (relatively) easy. Get the easy stuff right xxxx. In and of themselves they will not make you successful. However, not possessing them will hold you back and you will not achieve your potential which, by virtue of you being admitted to Stern, you must have in spades. It’s not too late xxxx…

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Professor Galloway

**Edit 4/10/13: A friend who has taken Prof Galloway’s course at NYU says this story is legend and confirms that he uses this as an example of why not to be late to his class. And I also wanted to note, I don’t know who the student is or what their gender is. And I wanted to add just 1 extra note, I appreciate everyone’s well written comments. You guys are all smarter than me.

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1,023 responses

  1. I love this. He is dead on to hose this kid. You may have heard that NPR set this letter to music this weekend, with excellent results: http://totaldrek.blogspot.com/2010/03/get-your-shit-together.html

    1. If only MORE leaders could be this NON-POLITICALLY CORRECT and just “shake the baby”, maybe there wouldn’t be as many dumb-asses in charge in America. Morons of Rank. Just drives me up the wall, man. Thank you, Prof. G!!!

      1. Shaken baby syndrome can seriously damage infants. Find a better analogy.

      2. This has absolutely zero to do with “political correctness” as you’ve framed it. In fact, I’d say this professor was actually insisting on politically correct behaviour, which is respect and understanding for the situations of others.

      3. Ron, in what world is having respect a sign of political correctness???? If nothing else, the student was seeking seeking understanding as to why he came in late. The teacher flat out told him to stop whining and get his shit together. HOW ON EARTH is that political correctness???

      4. Steve, he obviously wasn’t trying to seek understanding. He even explicitly states at the end “…I just wanted to be open and provide my opinion on the matter.” So let’s not make the kid into the victim, that kid wrote the email egotistically thinking he was in the right. Unfortunately, for him it was the wrong choice. Secondly, before you blow a gasket over what Ron said, re-read it. He didn’t say the professor was being politically correct, he said that the professor insisted on politically correct behavior. Whether or not the professor conveyed/should’ve conveyed the behavior that he insisted the student have is a whole different argument. So calm down a bit with those extra questions marks. ;)

      5. FYI: I have taken classes at at least 4 different college level universities over my career. I was a student at some at a couple others just taking a class I was interested in to advance my career. At EVERY university, there was a UNIVERSITY LEVEL policy that if you are 15 minutes late, you are not allowed into class. But this also applied to the *professors.* If your professor was 15 minutes late, class was dismissed. Simple as that.

        While I understand what she was trying to do, she went about it the wrong way. It would have been better to meet with each professor or a student who has taken their class and investigated it that way. Would you ever go to three different employers and hang out for an hour and then move on until you found one you liked? No.

        This was something she should have learned in orientation.

      6. I don’t really see it as being politically incorrect by any definition. He worded everything quite encouragingly, and I treasure people that can be that brutally honest with me.

      7. Yea, she could have approached the professors beforehand, but I’m actually going to have to side with the student here. It’s not like sampling an employer.. because she’s the one paying HER money to take the class. HER money is providing his paycheck. I hate how some professors think it’s OK to get up on their high horses and treat students like garbage when the student is paying a lot of money to take that class. She should be able to do whatever she wants as long as it’s not disrupting the class, and walking calmly into a class mid-lecture and sitting down isn’t THAT distracting.

      8. I agree with the profesor 100%

      9. lifetime learner

        @Common Sense – Yes, you can walk into a movie late, but some announce they can throw you out for texting. It is destracting to other paying customers. If you go to a play, a concert, or a dance performance, many times you will not be allowed to enter until a break.
        Yes, we pay a lot for college. On the other hand, professors are also expected to have a certain passing rate. Students showing up late, texting, etc. is not conducive to the learning environment. In classes where participation is important, everyone is held back when students do not keep up. Behaviour not supportive to learning is not fair to anyone. Students fall behind and professors are pressured to pass them anyway. Then, a lot of money is spent on tuition without the desired learning to show for it. Personally, as a professor, lateness does not bother me. I barely notice it and it doesn´t offend me. However, I really do believe it holds the student, and the class as a whole back. I may try to more effectively discourage late arrival. There are always students who arrive late to class and expect me to give them the portion of the exam they have missed. I have stopped doing so. I am not payed for that. I would have to give every exam multiple times. Other behaviours do not distract me personally, but other students complain about them. Also, texting and other destractions do affect learning for everyone when participation is important. Even when participation is not important, I believe it can be destracting to others. It detracts from the focused energy that I would want to see in a classroom. As a student, I appreciate high expectations from the professor. On the other hand, as a professor, I try to address issues in an encouraging manner.

      10. This is actually for Sandy up there at 3:05pm. I’m sick of students with that exact attitude of yours that professors are paid from a students tuition and should be allowed to do what they want. This leads to an environment of entitlement in the classroom, grade inflation to placate students who become dumber and dumber as time goes on, and threats of law suits for poor grades. You pay for the privilege of being in the class room with access to the educational materials. It’s very similar to having concert tickets. Would you go to a concern for the Rolling Stones and demand they play the song YOU want because you’re entitled to it? What if that song you wanted to hear wasn’t even theirs? Sit down, shut up, pay attention, do the work, and you’ll EARN something from class.

      11. Do you know what I love about all these troll responses? Not a single one of them, was grammatically correct. Do not pretend to lecture populace reguarding a collegate sharing of instance, and expect to be respected. Even this post, I do not expect repore from. Nor will I ever again read it.

      12. @ Sandy. This student is paying for access to the professor’s experience, knowledge and expertise, not the course per se. So, by entering his classroom an hour late she wasn’t only disrespectful she was potentially cheating herself out some of her tuition money.

      13. I am tired of a society that caters to people who can’t (or won’t) follow the rules. GET TO CLASS ON TIME!

      14. I like the professor answered the student because the student’s feedback was not appropriate. I would say: “Well Done Professor”.

      15. Concerned Citizen

        I am replying to the person who goes by the name of “Grammar Nazi”. Normally, I would not correct another person’s grammar and spelling on a website, because one simply cannot assume nowadays that everybody knows the rules for correct grammar. However, you have brought this upon yourself.

        Do you know what I love about all these troll responses? Not a single one of them, [NO COMMA GOES HERE!] was grammatically correct. Do not pretend to lecture [the or a] populace reguarding [regarding. I noticed that this word was marked as incorrect, so you have no excuses there.] a collegate sharing of instance, and expect to be respected. Even this post, I do not expect repore from [repore is not even a word. Also, your grammar in this sentence is atrocious. Do not end a sentence with a preposition! Furthermore, this sentence makes no sense] . Nor will I ever again read it. [Once again, the atrocity of your grammatical structure is painful to behold]

        Please, for the sake of mankind, use proper grammar if you consider yourself a “Grammar Nazi”. Your abuse of the English language, and of your fellow comment-makers, horrifies me. Trolololol

      16. Totally agree about the “shaken baby syndrome” comment being a horrible analogy, J.

      17. Professor’s just expect people in college to act like adults and treat it like a job. My mom is a professor and works 70 hour weeks and puts her all into. The students are expected to be doing the same.

      18. I love how Grammer Nazi has multiple misspellings (concerned citizen missed the misspelling of collgIate), and misuses, of words in his reply. His/her ridiculously garrulous attempt at appearing intelligent is reminiscent of a Mike Tyson quote. Stop putting yourself up on a pedicure, Nazi.

        As for the class, as a Stern Alumni the student’s email to the professor aggravates me too. The idea of shopping around classes doesn’t bother me. However, their claim of ignorance is either a lie or I feel a little less proud of my degree.

        I never had Galloway but his reputation as a stickler is very well known. This student had many options to approach this situation. Many of the course syllabi are posted online prior to the class, or emailed directly by the professor to his roster. If not, they could have emailed him ahead of time to check if it was okay with him. There is simply no way that this student could honestly claim that it was impossible for them to know it was a huge risk to stroll into class the first day an hour late.

      19. Anonymous Teacher

        @Grammer Nazi –
        If you are going to label yourself as the “Grammar Nazi”, please check your own grammar and spelling. Grammar is spelled with an “a” and “regarding” is not spelled the way you wrote it. Rapport is not spelled “repore” and you ended the sentence that includes that word with a dangling participle.

      20. @Sandy

        I hope you realize that by doing what this student did (“shopping” around for classes), her registration in 3 separate courses actually took away from 1-2 other students’ opportunities to achieve that same education. Saying that because students are the ones footing the bills, they should be able to “do whatever they want” is no excuse for egotistical behavior and a misuse of the educational system. What makes this student’s right to an education any more important than another student’s (who, by the way, is also required to pay for it).
        **And if the student was not actually even registered in the courses (rendering my previous comment irrelevant), then he/she had absolutely no business disrupting the learning in each of the classrooms to begin with. I agree with numerous other comments, that if the student was that interested in “sampling” each of the classes, it should have been something that was pre-arranged with each professor beforehand. Also, the student should have planned to attend each class in its entirety so as to not disrupt the environment. Anyone who thinks that this might be a bit “overkill” should just do what the rest of us do….pick a damn course and deal with it!

    2. Sorry, if a student is paying $50K a year for school (or more) then they can surely do what this student did. And, while I guess it’s kind of rude, the student sent a nice email and the professor responded like a petulant child. It was also the first day of class. The first week or two of any college schedule can change dramatically with add/drops or simply getting lost or whatever. Six weeks into the semester, maybe this is ok. But first day? Sorry, professor is an asshole.

      1. Yeah, I mean once you pay someone enough to cover the dry cleaners, you can literally defecate on their head.

      2. You’re an idiot.

      3. As he stated, the student easily could have emailed the professor or TA to at least give them heads up, let alone ask permission. A specific tuition doesn’t give the student power over the professor’s lecture schedule. Most schools give you a week or two to add or drop classes, he/she could have attended the different lectures on different days rather than segments of each all in one night. I highly doubt anyone would show up to a dinner, a meeting, a class, or an appointment and assume there would be no problem.

      4. Wow. You are so self important and entitled. You should take the professor’s advice. Grow up, “Keira Knightly”.

      5. You are an idiot actually covers it pretty well

      6. This wasn’t college it was an MBA grad school class. In grad school schedules don’t change as dramatically as they o in undergrad. Additionally to be in an MBA program the student was probably 25 or older, a that age the student should have just swollowed his anonymous embarrasmen and not emailed the professor just to chastise him. Also just because you pay for a class doesn’t mean you now own the right to do whatever you want with the class. You pay for the opportunity to learn

      7. Since you seem to believe that the amount of money paid makes a difference — how much did the other students pay? Shouldn’t they be able to get their money’s worth of teaching time for which they’ve paid? Why doesn’t xxxx offer to pay the other students for the time which she’s wasted by interrupting class? Could it be for the same reasons she thinks nothing of barging in and then writing a thinly-veiled snarky email — an inflated sense of entitlement, poor judgment, and abysmal manners?

      8. The student is not a customer.

      9. This is the type of attitude that differentiates the talented from the accomplished. If you think that paying tuition entitles you to such ridiculous decision-making, you deserve to fail and throw your money away. You don’t pay for a degree — we’re not just providing a service. You are paying for the resources it costs to educate you, and tuition NEVER covers the full cost of educating a student. Furthermore, grad/professional school isn’t just post-undergrad; it is on-the-job training, do Lesson #1 is that you do things right or fall short. Do the world a favor and give your tuition dollars to charity — you’ll get more out of them.

      10. This isn’t a college freshman showing up late to Intro to Philosophy. He’s an MBA student learning how to function as a business professional (and apparently a human being). As a professional – you can’t get away with showing up an hour late to something. I don’t care who you are.

      11. Simple decorum is always necessary. Would you show up for a date an hour late? A job interview 15 minutes late? Your wedding 5 minutes before you’re scheduled to walk down the aisle? Regardless of shopping around for a class, you’re setting a precedent and the professor was bang on in calling her out, especially when he explicitly states how this student not only disrespected his class but two others by walking out of the class early and showing up to another class late. One professor told me this and to this day I abide by this rule: If you’re on time, you’re late, and if you’re 10 minutes early, you’re on time. That’s how adults behave.

      12. I’ve dealt with people like you my entire life ( I am almost 60) and this generation has got a HUGE shock coming when they are finally thrust into the grown up world and have to fend for themselves. I see you whining that you cannot set your clock on the DVD player, fix minor things on their own computer, you can or will not do much of anything for yourself, that is someone elses job (just who this someone is, is to be determined)..you hit 15 and think you are the Donald…we all owe you just because you breathe. A student is in a school to LEARN, he/she is NOT the teacher. Try thinking outside yourself and show up on time, you think your boss will be fine with you showing up when you want to and leave when you choose? OMG, I hope I live long enough to have the last laugh..and hey, I could not finish college, I had to support 2 families, I owned a business that I started from scratch, married a Navy man and traveled all over, but always and I mean always took care of my family, friends and anyone who needed it…and I cannot wait till YOU leave mom and dads basement and find the world does not give a damn about you, you are not the princess or prince.

      13. Money does NOT purchase the right to treat others with disrespect, EVER.

      14. If there are 80 other students who are all paying $50k/year for tuition, the professor has every right not to let one loser ruin the class for everyone else.

      15. The student is not a customer. The professor is a respected expert who is being paid for the privilege of accessing their time and imparting their knowledge. The only one who loses when the student fails to make the effort required to learn is the student, who has thrown their opportunities away.

      16. Reply to Dondura

        Dondura,

        Why the emotion? It seems like you have ill will towards the younger generation. Why not be encouraging instead of demeaning? The fact that you look forward to reveling in someone else’s pain tells me you are not quite at peace with yourself in the world, which is unfortunate given that you are “almost 60″.

        I do have an issue with your version of the “Kids these days…” trope. My issues:
        1) The generalization that the youth aren’t good with technology (ex: “whining that you cannot set your clock on the DVD player, fix minor things on their own computer”) – Huh? Younger generations, generally speaking, have a better intuitive understanding of technology than the older generations. As someone who works in Tech, I find your generalization the exact opposite of what data and common sense purport.
        2) You didn’t finish college, yet you were able support 2 families – Congrats! Do understand that the current generation coming out of college are entering a VASTLY different economy from the one you experienced. When you were a kid, you could live a decent middle class lifestyle with less than a college degree. That’s not so easy anymore. Wages are stagnating & falling for those without advanced degrees. Our economy is moving from what once used to a labor-intensive economy to a capital-intensive economy, which doesn’t make it easy for would-be job seekers.
        3) College is exponentially more expensive nowadays (even inflation-adjusted) than it was when you were a kid. The average graduate of college is $26,000 in debt. Did I mention that their job prospects are slim as well?
        4) Overall, the lack of understanding that your generation RAISED the current generation. That the current generation is left growing up with the remnants of what your generation has done. The current generation is on the hook for paying for your retirement (SS), yet will not have the privilege of being supported by it themselves.

        What you need to understand is that nearly every generation does the “Kids these days…” cliche without understanding that they are culpable for the younger generation. Every generation is essentially the same, it’s just the environment in which we grow up in which helps shape what can be done.

        I do hope you are able to gain this sort of perspective, and not feel ill will towards younger humans who may be having a tough time because their economic environment is one which is slightly different than the one you grew up with. You shouldn’t thrive on other’s failures. Help them succeed.

      17. You MUST be an undergrad student. Get over yourself.

      18. No, the student is a customer. You all sound like a bunch of whiny little losers. Oh dear lord, the horror of someone arriving late! What a waste of 0.5 seconds, the time it takes for people to turn their head and look at the door, and then turn back. Good thing this very smart professor decided to drag out what could have been nothing. I think the lesson here is don’t pay 50k a year so some jerk can act like YOU owe him something.

        College is a waste of time, the whole system needs a total overhaul. My success in life has been 100% independent of my college degree. I don’t owe college professors anything at all.

      19. You’re full of crap Yoy

      20. I don’t agree with the notion that money should have any serious consequences on pure ethical behaviour. And neither does this help educate a more mature society. Do you want to say that if I have enough cash I should be allowed to defecate on the roof of the Capitol Building? (As Wall Street effectively does!). I am not really excited about the price of the higher education today, it’s just another form if business now, but it’s for the good of this kid that has received a lesson in ethics this early in his life. Hope he takes it into his heart!*

      21. Sorry Kierra but you are very wrong on this matter. The student paid 50K a year? so what? When I was in culinary school we had students show up late daily, some an hour or more late. Others would get to our 6 am class and sleep through demo and lecture. These students were the first to bitch and moan about “never being taught that.” It was students like me who suffered the most from those students having to constantly deal with them asking me how to do something, borrowing (actually I mean stealing) my notes, and in a few cases trying to pass off my own work as theirs. I was in pastry classes dealing with this where every step is vitally important to the finished product, having any part stolen or being distracted while dealing with 300 degree sugar because someone slept in is unacceptable. Have any idea what happens when you pour 2 pounds of 300 degree sugar on human flesh? they have a bad week. I paid out my ass to get an excellent education and I will be damned if I would allow someone to jepordise that because they want to weigh their options or sleep an hour longer. Grow up, think about your actions, and make friends because you’re gonna need them.

      22. Reply to Henrik

        I don’t think ‘defecate on the roof of the Capitol Building’ is a good analogy.

        With higher education, the student is the buyer, and the university (represented by the professor) is the seller. The student is exchanging a large amount of cash for the services of the university. In your analogy, who is selling the right to defecate on the roof of the Capitol Building? In that analogy, I would question the seller more than I would the buyer of the opportunity to defecate on the roof. Why would someone sell that?

        Did the student exhibit bad social decorum? Yes. Did the professor handle this situation in a mature way? No.

      23. Although I can give credit to some of the replies to this post, I think the professor acted poorly. He had the right to be bothered by the students tardiness but where I draw the line is how the professor responded. Most of you took the side of the professor citing his attention to respect and being socially upright. Really? Would you respect that if you were late to a meeting, job interview, doctor’s appointment or any other professional situation that the other person would respond to you by saying, “Get your shit together?” That in itself was disrespectful and not professional at all. He should be held to the same principles as he was placing on the student. I get his point, and yet he could have modeled some decency himself. Also, the anonymous who said that a student is not a customer is incorrect. He or she is paying for a service- thus, a customer.

      24. xxxx? is that you?

        you really should get your **** together.

      25. I hate the people that say “the student is not a customer” Yes you damn well are… either your parents are paying for everything or your a damn fool. When you have to start paying that money back you’ll start to realize you were wrong. I agree with what the professor did but don’t tell me we are not a customer. That’s horseshit.

      26. I hate the people that say “the student is not a customer” Yes you damn well are… either your parents are paying for everything or your a damn fool. When you have to start paying that money back you’ll start to realize you were wrong. I agree with what the professor did but don’t tell me we are not a customer. That’s horseshit.

      27. You are clearly as stupid and as entitled as this student. I am a College Graduate and never had to do this. I read what the course was about and decided THEN if it would fit my curriculum. What are you checking? If the teacher is “fun”? If there is a lot of homework? There is nothing to check. You don’t buy a gift certificate to a Broadway musical and try 10 minutes out of a few different ones before deciding which one to stay for for Act 2. The student was rude. And he won’t ever be again.

      28. It’s ok to say the student is the customer as long as you understand 2 things. 1) the customer is not always right. 2) When you choose a college, you are getting a higher education, and that’s exactly what this student got.

        If you don’t understand that you are buying an education that prepares you for life in the real world, an education that holds you to a higher level of accountability, then you shouldn’t be wasting your money on that education.

      29. Yes, because someone who is in a business school, and wants to be successful really has an excuse for showing up an hour late. If I were their boss they would be out on the street.

        There is no excuse for this. A professor is trying to do their job and this idiot can’t be bothered to show up on time.

        Dondura, you do realize that not everyone in my generation acts like that, right?

        Maychick, in some of those instances, you will either not have a follow up interview, or lose your job.

      30. Only an entitled idiot like you would side with that selfish xxxx.

      31. @Kiera Knightley — why would you stick up for this behavior unless you were a rich kid yourself. you are unable to understand the situation because you are part of the privileged class. do yourself a favor and keep your ignorant mouth closed.

      32. Sense of entitlement. Get over it. Your generation is doomed.

      33. I agree with you, everyone else here seems to be a dick. sorry, IS a dick. stop being such dicks.

      34. The student is the customer but they aren’t paying to do anything they want. They are paying for an education. And there was a room full of paying customers who’s education was being degraded by one rude student who wasn’t grown up enough to make a decision.

      35. No…you’re the asshole

      36. If I too pay 50,000 then respect me, yea professor!!! KK your an idiot

      37. No, sorry, no amount of tuition $ justifies bad behavior. Manners can be taught, and that student just got a valuable lesson plus some great advice for free.

      38. The student is NOT a customer. The student is earning a degree, not buying one. An MBA program is professional school. The student should act accordingly. Respect not just for a professor, but for one’s peers by not barging in an hour late would seem to be at least a minimum for acceptable behavior.

      39. I’m guessing most of the people in this thread do not work in the professional world. You do realize the types of people who show up an hour late to things are the types of people who become CEOs, CFOs, COOs, etc., right? It’s the people who are hung up on playing by the rules, decorum, and all that who end up stuck in lower-level management for their entire lives, complaining on internet forums on their lunch break. Or even worse, they end up as professors who weren’t good enough to actually work in the professional world.

        I’m also guessing most of you supporting the professor never went to graduate or professional school. I did. And if a professor treated me like that, I would be in the Dean’s office over it in a heartbeat. Students pay these people’s bills. If you were an employer and your employee told you to get your shit together, you’d be handing them a cardboard box and telling them to empty their desk. That is completely unacceptable. Undergrad is the place for higher education, humanities, “thinking outside the box” and all that other BS. Professional school is much more simple and to the point: I pay you $100k, $200k, or more, and you teach me the black letter rules that I need to know. Nothing more. If I wanted some professor’s pontification about the proper way to live, respect, family planning, stress management, or whatever else, I’d read their blog. But if I am in your Corporate Taxation class, please teach me just that and let me go on my way.

      40. zzzzzzz,
        Show up on time and abide by the rules of classroom decorum, and you can be taught.

      41. How does a student coming in late disrupt the other students or professor? If a student decides to go to the bathroom, would this be different?

        Has this student started asking questions that have already been addressed? I just don’t see how merely walking in is disruptive. If you’re a student, if another asks you questions that he/she doesn’t know the answer to because he/she wasn’t paying attention or walked in late – just don’t help the person…

        -Student’s email – kind of defensive, said she didn’t know policy – wanted to give her opinion
        -Professor’s email – sarcastic. (comparing coming in late to urinating on desks …)
        - “get your $hit together” (is profanity part of basic decorum?)
        - forwarding of the message to all the other students…

        The teaching point had already been made – especially to all the students that stayed, the student was embarrassed and asked to leave and she did. The “being an adult” part works both ways.

        Functionally, if it was about “education time” or a “teaching point” and not personal pride (“feeling disrespected”) then wasting one’s own time and the classes with a lengthy email response and other’s by forwarding that message is unnecessary.

        When you’re in a meetings and you give a presentation do you think everyone is always completely attentive? If they are not, can you throw them out of the room? (if you significantly outrank them I suppose you can ;) ). Attentive people will take note of the smartphone users. Now if you forward an email and response where you chastise the person to your entire office, would that be acceptable? Would you receive more backlash for that or checking your email on your smartphone?

      42. Contrary to what many believe, student’s don’t buy their education. They pay for the privilege of earning it. As such, they are beholden to the regulations a professor chooses to set in place to maintain an effective learning environment for all involved. Students waltzing into class late are a distraction to the professor and disruptive to fellow students.

      43. Dondura, if you chose to have multiple families and you supported them, well bully. Frankly I’m not gonna call you a hero for doing what millions of divorced Americans do everyday. Also, your paradigm about students relating to professors like employees to employers is wrong. It’s just wrong. A student showing up to class on time is nothing like an employee showing up to work on time, because while a student is paying the professor, an employee is getting paid by his job. See how that works? No, we shouldn’t treat educators like doormats, but, as any college graduate burdened with loan debt will attest, we expect a lot for our money, and being publicly shamed twice does not factor into our expectations.

      44. On time is on time is on time. You don’t go into a classroom an hour late. It only shows disrepect, a lack of courtesy, and is very unprofessional. Better the student learn this now instead of the real world. If I took him to task for being late to a meeting and got an email like that. I wouldn’t tell him to get his s**t together – I’d fire him.

        By the way…what’s this “customer” crap. This is school…it’s NOT, I repeat NOT a mutual partnership. Never was…never will be.

        And this is why the Milennials are virtually unemployable.

      45. Tim,
        Agreed with you up until the very end there, bud. This IS NOT a generational thing! I’m not a millennial, by the way… Rude and self important individuals have always been around… again, I point to Congress over the past 100 years as a perfect example of this fact.
        My kids are good kids… not perfect, but good. I intend to teach them that they are important, but not all important, nor better than anyone else. I will teach them they can lead, they are individuals with ideas, and to be self sufficient… nut I will couple those teachings with ones of kindness for kindness sake and manners. The best compliments my wife and I get are, “what polite kids you have.”

      46. @formerfatboys, YOU are a wonderful example of what is driving this society into the ground. This sense of entitlement that people possess today is unbelievable.

      47. Just curious, does the fact that 30 or more people just equated you with all assholes in general penetrate? Are you inspired to rethink your assumptions? Because if so, XXXX may have a chance as well.

      48. While you’re entitled to your own opinion, I have to disagree. I recently completed my Masters over in London and ALL my lecturers held the same position. No admittance if you are 15 mins late. I guarantee if it was job interview or a business meeting the 15 mins late would not be appreciated either. The lecturer is 100% right.

      49. I agree with this one. The student actually had his sh** together by sampling a class before taking it. College costs $50,000+ per year. Students can’t afford to take the wrong classes. The ivory tower professor, safe in his job and safe in his salary with tenure, doesn’t understand this. He needs to get his sh** together and recognize that students today face incredible financial challenges to attend his classes. He should also understand that his attitude is fine for tenured professors but would get anyone else, at any other job, fired.

      50. See my earlier comments on how to correctly “sample” a class… This 20 minutes here, and there is NOT it! The student is wasting his own time as well as that of the professor and the other students he keeps interrupting by jumping from one lecture hall to the next.

      51. He is a grad student. He totally deserved it.

      52. Paying tuition does not give you the right to disrespect a professor and a whole class of students trying to get on with a lesson. Paying money does not make it okay to suddenly lose your manners. This is what is wrong with the world. Hopefully this student is able to pick up these life lessons at with all that money that is being paid…

      53. Kiera,
        As a professor nearing the end of my teaching career, I have over the past 10 years spent many moments – nay hours – wondering when our culture lost a sense of decorum and manners. It’s unconscionable to me that anyone – ANYONE – would find it acceptable to enter a lecture an hour late and to expect such behavior to be totally without consequence.

        You state as you first and thus most important factor the cost of education. This entirely ignores the professor’s extensive training and preparation for the course, which is, in your assessment and clearly in that of the offending student’s worldview, less important than your shopping around for a course that you “like.”

        Kiera, you speak the language of today, and I fear that this is at the foundation of our culture’s degeneration into one of egoism and selfishness and a total lack of concern for anyone else’s feelings, expectation of respect, or anything else that does not automatically and instantly satisfy the narcissism of the student/individual.

        Please note that my comments are also directed at “Academic” below … a moniker with which I take issue.

      54. For students out there siding with this particular student, have fun in the real world when you finish college. You will be confronted with a rude awakening.

        Regardless of it being the first day of class or not, walking in and out of a classroom while a professor is in mid-lecture is unacceptable.

        Would you simply get up and leave a meeting if your boss were in mid-sentence?

        If so, good luck being un-reputable and unemployed.

        Professors spend hours planning lectures, grading papers and replying to a sea of emails in addition to valuable time spent in the classroom. It is a highly demanding, high energy occupation, that demands better compensation and more respect from students and society.

        Students who think they can be rude, impatient, and always get their way, because they pay tuition (mostly paid by Mom and Dad) have the equation wrong. Here is a wakeup call: Your teachers only owe you the respect you show them, and society cares less that its owes you anything.

        Quit your entitled attitudes.

        I fully advocate the professor’s response and believe more professors should be able to exercise their perspective on such situations more often.

      55. If you think paying tuition makes you a customer, then do you also consider you were a customer when you were attending high school? Your parent PAYED the tuition for you through direct or indirect property tax. Do you think you had a right to sample classes in high school, or being tardy for an hour on the first day?

      56. You’re immature.

      57. Agree. Thank you.

      58. As a matter of fact, paying tuition does actually entitle you to show up to class whenever you want. Obviously he/she can’t come in and piss on the professor or make a ruckus by dancing on desks, but let’s not take this discussion into the realm of absurdity.

        In no other industry would any of you be thinking that it is okay to pay someone substantial amounts of money for a service only to have no say in how you go about receiving that service. If one of you spent $20 on a movie ticket and popcorn and then got to the actual theater 15 minutes late, and an employee told you that you can’t go in to see the movie, sorry go enjoy your popcorn on your drive home… you would flip out! But because it’s a STUDENT (who is paying what amounts to about 1000 movie tickets and 500 buckets of popcorn), he/she loses that prerogative?

        This article is a case of a teacher who misunderstands what he has been paid to do, which is teach his damn class, not give life lessons on the importance of being prompt. I pay you to do something, you sure as hell better do it or else you are fired, which happily this student did by dropping Professor Dipshit’s class.

      59. Bull. If a student is that concerned over which class to choose, he or she can make the time to survey those classes the semester before, during the planning process for the following semester. You know – like the professor stated – acting like you have your shit together in your adult life.

      60. If a student is paying $50k then he/she should have much more respect for his/her education. Walking in after an hour is disrespectful, not late, not only of the professor, but of oneself, the university and the parents who are more than likely bankrolling his education. I hate when people assume education is a right, its not, its a privilege. This professor is entirely right to call this student out, until this student learn not to play the blame game, he/she will not go far in life–no one likes a whiner.

      61. This isn’t acceptable anytime, even 6 weeks in when there is more being taught. Most colleges and universities have a few weeks where you can add and drop classes. This means that they could have gone to 1 of the classes each week. If their school didn’t give that much time to do this they could have just spoke to 2 of them and asked about it. This was done in 2010, there are many professors out there now that record their lectures so she could have easily asked for a recording. While you can not see the lecture if it isn’t video, you can still get a good idea on the style of the professor with out it.

      62. I certainly agree that a University is a business that is providing a product, a very expensive product. I get the argument that this student does not have the right to disrupt a class over and above other consumers, and that there are far better and more considerate ways to accomplish the goal, but common the student simply came in late. I’m sure it was more disruptive for the class for the professor to expel the student from the class that it would have been for them to simply walk in and find a seat. During University, this happened all the time and it was never a big deal. Moreover, as many people have pointed out, by emailing this response to the entire class, this professor is exemplifying the same childish behaviour he is attempting to chastise. How hypocritical is it to call someone immature and unprofessional in an email that is immature and unprofessional. Using curse words in a response such as this is about as unprofessional as it gets. As everyone has said, this person was an adult, and as an adult should not be treated as though they were in high school. It’s plain to see that the student doesn’t understand why their behaviour may have been selfish and inconsiderate, but the response by this proff is much much worse.

      63. Dear “Common Sense”,

        Apparently you must not exercise much common sense.

        Thinking that because one pays tuition entitles them to come and go to class as they please is absurd. The classroom is not a storefront. Many people think that the exorbitant tuition paid by students actually goes to teachers salaries, when in fact, very little does. Most tuition is absorbed by the administration and other research costs and not by teachers. Most institutions highly depend on Adjunct Faculty that are hired for minimal pay with little to no job security.

        You need to get your facts straight before you haphazardly draw conclusions.

      64. Bull $hit !! You mean if I pay that much money I can pull my pants down in class?? You evidently are not living in the real world where you must be at work on time and take responsibility for what you do, good or bad.

      65. Are you the guy???

      66. Sorry….you’re tuition gives you access…it doesn’t let you set your own rules! Don’t like it….take your money somewhere else.

      67. Bottom line, if this person would have done this at their job and then emailed the boss to explain in this manner, they would have been fired. People like you give our generation a bad rap.

      68. The student didn’t send a “nice” email. Also paying tuition doesn’t mean you get to make the rules. This behavior is the outcome of a generation of children, who upon reaching maturity, believe they are entitled to everything and the world owes them.

      69. This student (or her Parents) are paying 50K? This is a lesson this entitled brat should have already known for free by the time she gets to grad school! Quit with the excuses, already!

      70. I agree with you. Thank you for posting the minority view.

        I think the teacher threw an email tantrum. He should take his own advice.

      71. @zzzzz and ReplytoDondura

        zzzzzz-
        Totally right about get to the point and get it done. But when the CEO, CFO, whatever was a student, employee, or lower level management (I’m assuming they didn’t start as a CEO) they sure as hell showed up on time. And if they didn’t, they got their A-S-S chewed if their boss was worth a damn.

        Reply to Dondura-
        I think the point Dondura was making is that our generation (I am assuming you are in your 20′s or early 30′s and in a similar age bracket as myself) has a huge sense of entitlement and an inability or lack of interest in performing what she/the previous generation would consider very basic tasks. While we’re much better with technology we’re really not that good at electronics (electronics meaning light switches, circuit boards, etc.), mechanics or other basic skills one might find useful in repairing or maintaining their own property. We tend to delegate that to others while we pursue the more refined skills of law, consulting, business, etc. As a member of this current generation which has been deemed entitled and whinny I tend to agree with our predecessors’ opinion of us. It was not until my mid-late 20′s that I realized, “Shit, I might want to know how to fix a light switch or where my car’s alternator is.” Most people in our generation still have no clue. They do tend to make great lawyers, computer engineers, or consultants though. We’ve really overspecialized. Part our fault and part our parent’s generation’s fault. Either way, I am pretty sure was Dondura’s point.

      72. Let’s change this situation a bit. Does buying a movie ticket entitle you to disrupt a theatre full of people? Yes, you are the customer, and yes, you paid an exorbitant price to sit in a dark room with other people, but does this mean you are allowed to break the accepted social norms of the situation? If an usher asked you to stop talking on your cell or stop standing in the aisle, would you tell him that you paid for the ticket, and you’ll act anyway way you damn well want? If he responded by forcing you to leave the theatre to preserve the experience for the other movie goers, would he be justified?

      73. Look kid, this is real life. You don’t get a blue ribbon or a star for showing up at work on time. You don’t get an “adda-boy” for wearing a suit to a meeting with your client. There is no hot dog and soda waiting for you after blowing the $100k deal. In the real world, something the Millennials have NO IDEA about, there are things called “consequences”. This is a concept that will blow your mind and make you bring your mommy to your next job interview… wait… didn’t you guys already start doing that?

      74. This student is an asshole. I commend this professor for the clarity, precision, and generosity of his critique.

        Your statement indicates that by paying NYU’s tuition, this student is thereby entitled to act however he/she pleases within the structure of the university and its operations.

        I don’t care if it’s a lecture at NYU or a children’s story hour at the public library. Do not enter in the middle of something that others have committed their undivided time and attention to, and then act as though you’ve been wronged when you were called out for being rude.

        I repeat: you are insisting that this student was entitled to do so. Entitlement. An ugly attitude in this world that I would like to see disappear.

      75. You are aware that every other student whose education was interrupted by this person is paying the same amount, right?

        I wish I had more assholes in my life. We all need people to tell us in whatever way reaches us that we’ve messed up. Seriously, I’m sure the whole incident wouldn’t have been nearly as a big of a deal if this student (who isn’t taking his class anyway) had just let it go. If the student was taking his class, I would have understood the student’s desire to make amends. This one, however, basically told the instructor that the letter had no point except to tell him that his way was wrong. I think this student got a valuable lesson without paying for it from this instructor.

      76. I’d stop pulling your ears and blowing hard like that. You might burst the two remaining brain cells in that vast cavernous space between them.

      77. Actually, your statement is counter intuitive. If I was paying $50k a year as an MBA candidate, I would be putting every ounce of ‘Give a Damn’, into my education.
        Seriously? Shopping for a class(or Professor) you like, again, defeats the whole purpose of a Graduate Program. Especially in Business! When play time is over and you hit the pavement in the REAL WORLD, you’d damn well better have the experience and know how, to deal with people who you don’t like!
        Just another millennial that thinks the world needs to make accommodations for them.

      78. @Elle Jay
        I think you hit the nail on the head right here:

        “the whole incident wouldn’t have been nearly as a big of a deal if this student (who isn’t taking his class anyway) had just let it go”

        The end of it should have been when the student left the class. Often it is just better to let things go. This does extend to the professor too, who perhaps could have just let the student think whatever they like about how their email was received, rather than retaliate. The private reply was one thing, but forwarding to other students was unprofessional. Again, with workplace analogies, when somebody is fired or chastised for inappropriate behaviour, they don’t announce it on the PA to the entire office or store. It is handled quietly with a certain level of respect for the party being chastised. They have made a mistake, and deserve a chance perhaps to

        Also, we can’t know that this is how the student behaves regularly.

        Aside from that,

        Enough information is available to know what a class is about before signing up, so the only reason I can see for “shopping” is to see how one likes the professor, which is just not a good way to go about choosing your classes. I understand the effect the professor may have on a student’s ability to learn, but there aren’t many horrible professors out there. You might not like all of them, but similarly to any institution or workplace, you will learn to get along well enough to get by and not piss people off. For those odd professors who ARE actually horrible and do not teach well, that is what the professor evaluations are for. There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not this “shopping” practice is tolerated at different institutions, but I can certainly imagine better ways to choose your classes, regardless of whether or not shopping is allowed. Even so, many lectures run multiple times a week, depending on class sizes, and by talking to your peers, you can usually find a way to make them all in the first week without having to jump from class to class in the same class period.

      79. It’s called etiquette. And if she wanted to shop around for her classes, then why not email the prof in advance? It’s plain rude and disruptive to everyone. You obviously have never taught a day in your life so you have no experience to make the comment about the prof, who is 100% correct in teaching a life lesson to all of us.

      80. Why don’t we all agree that both of them acted like jackasses? Then we can all stop arguing on the internet and get back to our lives.

      81. would you like the professor to rub your belly, feed you cake and telling you how you smart you are while at it? if you are paying 50k a year you better get your shit together

      82. Both the student and the professor were in the wrong with this.

        The student should have never showed up late to the first class, felt entitled enough to shop around, or pursued the disagreement after being asked to leave. This is immaturity.

        The professor should never have childishly lowered himself to the student’s level by sending an email out of damaged pride, and most definitely should not have forwarded a private conversation to the rest of the entire class. This is unprofessionalism.

        BOTH parties acted wrongly in this situation, and neither of them should be congratulated for what they did. This has devolved into nothing more than a war of the generations, where each side is blindly defending what they believe to be right based upon the world they grew up in.

        Everyone in this thread needs to take a deep breath and look at the situation from an outside perspective. The disagreement was handled poorly on both sides of the gap. End of story.

      83. I agree, professor needs to be understanding of his students life situation.

        Sometimes students have other responsibilities (kids, family, work) and this professor’s response is childish and unwarranted.

        I have been to many courses which I should have been refunded. Shopping around for a course is completely legitimate as some courses and professors are horrible.

        That being said, i think the 15 min rule is unreasonable. How disruptive is it really?

      84. The student can certainly do such thing and it happens all over the place in colleges thru out the US. However, if you read that email he sent, it’s rather complaining or accusing the professor of making rude action to the student himself. I mean that’s really the message the student sends to the professor saying that 1. student’s actions were all reasonable, 2. the professor’s rude remarks has bothered him. on top of that if he decided not to take the course he could’ve just kept shut but really went that far to accuse the professor. i gotta admit the student needs to show more sense of humility. (when you’re in college, you’re a fucking baby and really have no idea of the real world..)

      85. No the professor is not wrong – the student is disrespectful. If one really wants to know which course to take they should contact the professor to get an essence of the class. Students today can be so rude and disrespectful of not only professor but the other students. Good for the professor for taking the time to attempt to teach the student “something” even it the student is no long welcome in the class.

      86. You should get your shit together.

      87. Please stop feeding the trolls people.

      88. @stifledgenius: this guy’s too eloquent to be a troll. Trolls may be detailed, but they’re never that eloquent.

        @this guy: What a cute little world you live in where you can pay someone for the right amount of money just so you can show you see that person’s passion merely as a shopping option, and not so much as a potential career.

        Money doesn’t solve everything, little man. You need to wake up.

      89. A word of advice from a college instructor: you CAN email the professor of classes in which you MIGHT be interested and ASK for a SYLLABUS before the class starts. Then you might be able to make these decisions ahead of time and (BONUS) learn about class policies regarding late entry.

        Some of you suggest that the professor asking the student to leave was more disruptive to the class than the student entering late. What you are not taking into account is the fact that publicly asking students to leave sends a strong message to all of the students sitting there that the behavior will not being tolerated. Although it was may have been more disruptive that one time, it deters other students from doing the same thing, therefore producing an overall net reduction in distractions associated with tardiness.

      90. Prof. Dr.BitchonWheels

        The student is indeed the customer. And the professor closed his “store” at class-fifteen. Sorry, xxxx. LOL

      91. I agree in part. As a student who pays $5,000 every ten weeks to my institution, I should have some leeway to do whatever the hell I want. However, as a student who pays $5,000 every ten weeks to my institution, I should also not have to be interrupted in the middle of lecture by people who want to come and go as they please just so they can sample the classes. There are better ways to find out which class you want to take, like emailing professors, T.A.’s, or perhaps reading those class descriptions that are put there for a fucking reason.

      92. Just because the student is paying a tuition fee does not mean they deserve special treatment or can be completely disrespectful to the rest of the class or the professor. I got to university in Scotland and the students that are from here go for free, but i have to pay nearly £20k a year in tuition as an international student. I for one do not expect any leeway in school policy for me over the British students. Just this past exam period I missed out on an email updating our practical exam schedule which I was late for and not allowed to take. Because of this I now have to resit both exams for the subject (luckily for me we are allowed to resit if needed), not just the 1 I did not take. I went into the office at school to plead my case and explain that I never saw or even knew about the e-mail (even classmates never mentioned it, not that it is there fault as it’s completely mine). I was told that I have to resit both exams and that is University policy. Did I write an unapologetic e-mail blaming the university for not personally contacting me and making sure I knew about the change? Did I try and pass it off as “Oh well I just thought I could show up and take it whenever, does it really matter when I show up?” No, I took responsibility for my own problem and started preparing for the future which is what this student should have done.
        Besides, it’s (un)common sense that showing up an hour late to ANYTHING is unacceptable.

      93. FRESHMEN FOR CONGRESS 2014!

        Die in a fire.

        That is all.

      94. Besides the fact that the student acted wildly inappropriately, what he or she did is technically illegal. You cannot attend a class that you are not registered for. Doing so is receiving a good (the content of the class) without paying for it. Although some places may let class sampling slide, this student *wasn’t* paying his salary. Even if we set aside the horrendous, consumerist view that you and many espouse, this student was not in the right.

      95. I understand the shopping around for classes. Even grad school students do that they can get the biggest bang for their buck. But tact and respect are key. The drop/add period usually consists of the first two weeks of the semester. Rather than both annoying profs and limiting oneself to a mere 20 minute snapshot as the basis for a decision, sit for class A in week 1, class B in week 2, talk to someone/read the syllabus for class C and then make a decision. That this student also emailed the prof for a class he had already decided to drop just to say his feelings were hurt (i.e. pointless) was just asking for it.

    3. I don’t agree at all. That professor sounds like a huge dick. Students should feel free to check out their options during the first week, because it is important for students to take classes that are useful to them and that interest them. I don’t know about NYU, but every department I’ve worked in has always told us not to count attendance/lateness during the first week, to give students the flexibility they need to make scheduling decisions.

      Since there is no sign the student was being particularly disruptive other than simply entering the classroom, and since he/she sent a very polite explanation/apology, I feel like the professor’s reply is way out of order. And since the great majority of professors does not have a policy stating you can no longer enter after 15 minutes (particularly during the first week), it’s pretty arrogant of him to just assume students will somehow be able to divine that he has certain unusual policies. Exactly the kind of self-absorbed, condescending attitude I hope I will always be able to avoid as a professor.

      1. I hope you have just as many students as I did last semester try to start seriously taking your class a week or more into the semester. It’s not condescending for a professor to assume that he or she will be teaching his or her entire class the same material at the same time (a.k.a. to assume that everyone who wishes to be enrolled in the course actually attends all scheduled classes).

        Just because a student can’t get his or her sh*t together at the beginning of the semester is no reason for the professor to have to personally catch him or her up on the material missed. The first two weeks of class are NOT bullsh*t, they are 2 out of the 13 weeks of the semester. That’s slightly over 15% of the course. Either be in the class and show up, or don’t be in the class.

      2. Gallowayalltheway

        Entering the class AN HOUR late? you’re just gonna go in not knowing what everyone is talking about. Not a good time to see if the class is right for you, I’d say.

      3. I think the point is that manners costs nothing, if you are going to be late for any reason it is polite to get in touch ahead of time. The reply was a wake up call to the student, and politely put at that.
        ‘That professor sounds like a huge dick’ makes me suspect it will be some time before you could expect to call yourself one, if at all. Started lecturing/tutoring very recently perhaps?

      4. I completely disagree with you. I’m currently a college student, and the first week or two of the semester are usually incredibly important. This is a college, and when professors are expected to teach you everything about a subject that you will need for the rest of your life in two 75 minute long lectures for about a dozen weeks, then those professors will start teaching on day one. I pay a lot of money for my education, and if my professors treated the first 4 classes as a joke, I would feel ripped off. Also, allowing students 5 or 10 minutes to be late during the first week is understandable, an hour is ridiculous! There are no professors in my college who would tolerate you being that late to the class. It is disrespectful to the professor teaching the class, the students who are there to actually learn, and to yourself, who is wasting the money you’re spending on your education

      5. I hope you are a cheese lover because you certainly have plenty of whine. Grow up and act like an adult. My god we are becoming a whiney pampered nation. Research before taking a class. You dont learn anything about a class on “the first day” to make an informed decision. Talk to G.A.s, go to ratemyprofessor, research online.

      6. AdmiralBurnsides

        What that student sent was not in any possible way an apology. It was the thinly veiled bitching of an entitled crybaby. Take your lumps and move on.

      7. Not sure what college you’re working for, but your students must have you by the balls. You guys don’t count attendance the first week?? That exactly what the prof was addressing in his response. This generation of students is being taught that the world will cater to their desires only by whining about it, and not actually working for it. Your school’s policies play into that mentality by coddling them, but does nothing to prepare them for the level of accountability and planning that the real world demands. I’m not angry with you, I’m just telling like it is. I would recommend your administration do a better job of planning curriculum for your students and preparing them for college life. When I was teaching college, our orientation made damn sure that students knew what was expected of them. There was no need to “shop” for classes.

      8. I would venture to say that the prof probably covered class tardy/absent procedures somewhere in the first few moments of the class, but xxxx wouldnt have known them for the next class period either because they were an hour late. Trust me, most all of the professors I had in college would have told them to get their shit together IN THE CLASS, in front of everyone, not in some email. Several of my professors even went as far as locking the door at the time the class started. This taught you TO BE ON TIME. It is called being responsible.

      9. The policy is hardly unusual, and nothing prevented the student from emailing the professor in advance to inquire as to whether his plan was acceptable.

      10. Most classes put out a syllabus before the first day class. If the student had bothered to review it, they would have been aware of the attendance policy.

      11. I went to NYU, so, forgive me if I come across as speaking the gospel here. Fact is, ‘academic’ institution or not, NYU is, first and foremost, a BUSINESS. It’s a corporation that happens to award degrees. The student had every right to do what he did, because above and beyond the teacher-student paradigm, he was also a paying customer. That may offend some of you, but at $60,000 a year and rising, that’s how we view the system at NYU, because NYU is just not like other schools. The student’s behavior might have been inappropriate elsewhere, but I can confidently say that at NYU, it was actually pretty commonplace and quotidien. Also, the professor tipped his hand when he said that the student would by now be regretting his decision to send a discreet email. There was simply no educational value in publicly shaming this student by emailing his reply to the whole class. The student very much played by the rules when he sent the professor a private note, because HEAVEN FORBID the student should have called out the professor in public. But then the professor turned around, violated the confidential trust of their relationship and played dirty humiliation tactics. I mean, c’mon, what if the kid had come back after the class to approach the professor with his reasons, and then the professor shouted at him at the top of his lungs so all the students exiting the class could hear? Because that’s effectively what the professor did, and it was just plain UNPROFESSIONAL.

      12. If you’re a student, how is it disrespectful to you if another student enters class late? I can see how it’s disruptive to the professor but even that is fairly minimal.

        And not taking attendance is fairly standard at places where I’ve lectured (mostly large public schools). Past a certain class size it’s not really practical. (I believe 80 is the class size here for this MBA level course)

        I’m a bit surprised by the responses. I know some faculty that have those specific class rules (no admission if past N minutes late without a documented/valid excuse), but most do not. I think kicking out the student in that scenario is fine. Make your point to the rest of the class. And I agree that the student’s email was not an apology at all. But as faculty, what are you accomplishing by responding with a far worse email AND forwarding it to the students? Are you teaching her respect, by disrespecting her and passing that message to all your other students?

      13. There is this amazing thing known as the class description that is usually available when you register for classes. Also, registration is typically well in advance of the actual classes, so there’s more than enough time to speak with your academic advisor and discuss options. In other words, there are much better (and proactive) ways to get information if it’s about the content and applicability of a course.

        Now, on the other hand, if you’re trying to figure out which class would be the easiest to pass with a high grade with minimal effort…well, then perhaps XXXX’s method makes sense…

      14. Dear Academic,

        Your response as a professor is an attitude that disintegrates the role of respect a professor should be given by students. Certain students need to be told to get their shit together. Also, let us not forget it was a graduate student.

        I personally don’t care if the student sent a nice email apologizing. That does not cut it. Would you send your dean a letter if you acted the same way? Certainly not. You would be looking for a new job.

        Students today are increasingly impatient, lacking manners and self-sufficiency, and folding to their apologies and excuses enables them to think their actions are satisfactory.

        Many times, the best thing you can do as a professor is allow your students to fail and learn from their mistakes.

        As a professor myself, I am not looking for students to bow to my feet, but I also realize that part of my role is to make them responsible adults.

      15. NYU student feeling a sense of entitlement? As a New Yorker who frequents the West Village, I’m not surprised.

      16. “I feel like the professor’s reply is way out of order. And since the great majority of professors does not have a policy stating you can no longer enter after 15 minutes (particularly during the first week), it’s pretty arrogant of him to just assume students will somehow be able to divine that he has certain unusual policies. Exactly the kind of self-absorbed, condescending attitude I hope I will always be able to avoid as a professor.”

        That is the worse attitude ever. If an individual junior to you in both, or either, age and status (and you are junior in status if you are a student to the teacher or professor) disrespects you in such a manner I would hope you would rectify them of such behavior. You are not suppose to be this person’s friend but their leader, mentor and teacher. It is education such as the kind you are proposing that would leave the up and coming generation disrespectful, naive and disadvantaged. Being late by one hour is never acceptable unless you are the boss and even then I’m sure your upper management would have something to say about it.

        It sounds like you are a professor yourself. I hope you have enough respect for yourself to not tolerate this kind of behavior in your classroom. If not, well that explains how this kid made it to graduate school.

      17. If you want to go to a top ranked B-school, you need to do your research BEFORE attending a class. I highly doubt this happens at the Harvard or Stanford graduate business schools.

        Graduate MBA students can easily find out the quality of a course by talking to their cohorts or scheduling a 15 minute coffee chat with the instructor.

        The professor did that student a favor and gave her a reality check. It really seemed like she didn’t know what she was doing. In essence she 1) Did not know how to do research, 2) Could not make a decision at the right time.

        You know those executives who jump meeting to meeting, but never get anything done? Yeah, she was on her way to becoming one.

      18. …get your shit together!

      19. I am copying this from a comment I left in the previous thread:

        A word of advice from a college instructor: you CAN email the professor of classes in which you MIGHT be interested and ASK for a SYLLABUS before the class starts. Then you might be able to make these decisions ahead of time and (BONUS) learn about class policies regarding late entry.

    4. Though the sentiments of the professor are understandable, I think it was a condescending, very arrogant and unnecessarily humiliating response. The fact that he sent it to his class indicates this as well. He clearly enjoyed writing this and wanted to show the other students what a cool professor he is, which feels very inappropriate to me. There was a kind way to make the same point. Professors are supposed to be more mature than their students.

      1. Wrong… teachers are supposed to TEACH their students, which when this person entered the Teacher’s classroom became that Teacher’s student. And seriously, if you think this email was unkind… well, maybe you live in the same fantasy world as the student who walked in late. And it seems you do since you so plainly put in extraneous motivations that cannot possibly be read into by the email alone. And speaking of condescending… of course the student was not condescending to the professor at all was he? And in case you’re still in your fantasy world, yes that last question was rhetorical and sarcasm was intended.

        So to the idiot who walked in an hour late and to those who have taken that student’s side: when a teacher offers you some free advice, take it. Don’t complain about paying for an education when you can’t even appreciate education given to you freely.

      2. A professor is a mentor. A student who thinks that the professor’s time is not more valuable than the student’s NEEDS to be knocked down a peg or three. Furthermore, a business student must understand the importance of impressions and respectful behavior. Behaving professionally is just as important as any lesson he will learn in his MBA courses.

      3. Professors ‘call the shots’ concerning student’s discipline, or lack of. The core of graduate work is the discipline involved – self discipline exactly. Student xxx had neither the discipline nor desire to ask permission of professors to drop in and out of first day classes (naturally the answer would be a big NO, so this student admitted to being a discipline problem on the loose in the email). At the graduate level, this kind of behavior is excessively naive and has no redeeming qualities.

      4. It’s not as if the student is a victim here. If he can’t recover from this licking he took in email form, then he probably shouldn’t be getting into the business world. However, if he can take it in stride and learn from his misstep, he can come out stronger and more professional, which is the intention of the professor. The professor has his own accountability to worry about, and that is to prepare his students for life in the real world. And that is what he delivered. It is now up to the student to choose what he will do with this lesson.

      5. Being a teacher and having experienced a massive problem with students showing up late or not at all, I can totally understand this professor sending this email out to all his students. It wasn’t to show off, it was to show his students how seriously he took attendance and that he expected everyone to show up on time and ready to learn.

      6. Wow. What a completely ignorant and reactionary response. The prof. was eloquent and at the same time educational in his response. Sounds like you’ll make a good consultant. Asshat.

      7. Yes, as Anonymous states, teachers are there to TEACH THEIR STUDENTS.

        This has absolutely nothing to do with maturity.
        What the teacher did is not immature.

        “Aqw”, do you actually think the world is a nice, cushy place? If so, you are entirely out of touch with reality.

    5. Perhaps with the exception of medical school, professional (business/law) schools are a joke. You are not there to learn. You are simply there to go through the motions, network, get a piece of paper for which you pay $150,000 to $250,000 (provided you are at an top program), get a job that will give you the ability to pay off that debt, and maybe one day give you the “in” to establish a career that you actually enjoy doing. This student is going for his MBA. He/she is not a Ph.D. student who is trying to become a scholar, and is probably not under an all expenses paid fellowship.

      Has any one here ever taken a class in an MBA or law program? There is no substance. A monkey can self teach themselves that garbage. That professor can kiss my ass. He/she is simply a means to an end and should know his/her place.

      Humility definitely has its place in the real world, i.e., within one’s professional and personal affairs. Humility has no place in a competitive, overpriced joke of an quasi-educational institution that is only set up to take students money in simple return for a job. As far as I am concerned, if you sign up to teach in a sham institution like Stern, Sloan, HBS, etc. and expect to be treated like a decorated scholar, you have something else coming to you. Because guess what, you are not a scholar! Surprise!

      That said, the student should have probably bitten his tongue and let it go. No sense of getting rattled over some inconsequential minutia.

      1. Wow, I’m glad that someone here has been through all the graduate programs offered in the nation! It’s great to hear this well-informed opinion about the diverse options out there for hopeful professionals. Until you have gone through multiple MBA programs, you can’t pass such a blanket judgment. I know my grad program was worth it.

        This professor had every right to say what he said. Students should absolutely have agency in their education, but agency is NOT permission to be disrespectful. What really got me is the professor’s observation that xxxx was implying that he had walked into a classroom twenty minutes late and promptly walked out again twenty minutes later. That is profoundly rude and disruptive.

      2. Your sarcasm is not impressive. I don’t have to have “been through all the graduate programs offered in the nation,” to understand that they are a means to an end. Quite frankly, the only graduate professionals programs worth anything in the nation come either from the Ivy league, or other top level schools (Stanford, MIT, Mich, NYU, UC Berkeley, etc.), and there aren’t many of them (by worth anything, I mean that if you aren’t going to a top program, your job prospects and the odds of you making your money back in reasonable amount of time are stacked against you). Also, pick up any newspaper, Washpost, Wallstreet Journal, etc. and you will find many “well-informed” articles written not only by Professors, but Professional who assert that professional programs are a joke, and pretty much serve as a means to an end of getting a job.

        What you subjectively garnered from your MBA program is your own business, and if you had a positive experience then kudos to you. But us realists out there are only concerned about seeing payback on our investments, because that is what going to professional school is supposed to be, an investment. If you want to learn as an end in itself then you don’t belong in a professional school, you belong in a Ph.D. program.

        By the way, anyone who considers themselves a “hopeful professional” is an idiot. There should be no hope in professional fields, only well thought-out strategic decisions. This connects with my last point, because anyone out there who is willing to gamble a $150,000-$250,000 debt with only a hope of becoming a professional really needs to rethink the game of life.

      3. …says the guy who didn’t get accepted to Sloan, Stern, HBS, etc.

      4. …says the guy who didn’t get accepted to Stern, Sloan, HBS, etc.

      5. “By the way, anyone who considers themselves a “hopeful professional” is an idiot. There should be no hope in professional fields, only well thought-out strategic decisions.”

        So you would agree that the student did not have a good strategy? Would you agree that in the real world he would have received a much greater thrashing and penalty than he got in this exchange?

      6. This guy gets it. Business school is a circle-jerk.

      7. You obviously haven’t been to a top business school. “Sham institution?” I just pissed myself laughing. The bottom 10% of students at these schools are likely more intelligent and insightful than you ever thought about being. Save the diatribes for schools that you could actually get into.

      8. So let me get this straight. You’re trying to tell me that this excuses what the student did?

      9. Looks like someone didn’t get accepted…LOL…

      10. “That professor can kiss my ass. He/she is simply a means to an end and should know his/her place. ”

        FYI, Michael, Stern IS NYU…

      11. I only took one semester of law school (before realizing it wasn’t for me and I no longer wanted to waste my time/money), but I learned a helluva lot and took it very seriously. Probably the most educational four months of my life. You’re, um, wrong.

      12. I feel badly that you must have attended such a bad graduate school. I learned some incredible things in my MBA program…and the job and pay that followed required hard work and intelligent application of those.

      13. First of all you clearly are upset that you weren’t accepted by any of those programs. Second, you named NYU as a top level school, and as such is one of the few with a worthwhile professional degree program, yet you said this professor (who is at Stern, the business school of NYU) was a joke, or “a means to an end” completely disintegrating your sad attempt to downplay the value of education here. And finally, professional school is not merely a means to an end. It comprehensively pulls together everything relevant you’ve previously learned in undergrad (and things you haven’t learned as well), and teaches you to apply it to the everyday situations you will be faced with once you graduate and start working. I go to veterinary school and to be honest I was SO tired of going over physiology again and animal husbandry, but in this past year we pulled all of that together and learned how to apply it diagnoses and treatment of issues. If i didn’t learn to look at stacking numbers, height of the roof of a byre, the type of ventilation used (wether passive or facilitated) would all factor into the epidemiology of specific diseases in a herd of dairy cattle? That is all animal husbandry garbage (or so i thought) that I couldn’t possibly care any less about until learning that it may be the cheapest and easiest way for a farmer to care for his herd? Also, if I went purely academic with this line of thinking, would I even consider finances as a potential hinderance for treatment? No, I probably wouldn’t because my head would tell me “CURE CURE CURE!!!” which would get pretty expensive and help neither the farmer (who can’t or won’t pay) nor me (who won’t get paid). Professional schools teach you to look at all sides of a problem so you can come up with the most efficient/elegant response.

    6. Oh please, all of those defending NYU and this professor either don’t/didn’t go there or are okay with pissing money away. NYU is ridicuously overpriced and students now pay 60K (not 50, 60!) to attend this semi-prestigious school.

      You know what? These professors do work for students. They are not union employees at NYU. They are at-will. These students pay their salary, they pay for the campus in China and Abu Dhabi, they pay through the nose to get to be a “Stern Grad.”

      From personal experience, these students are entitled and spoiled. But so are these professors (have you seen the chronicle of higher education and that the average tenured faculty member makes more at NYU than Columbia? Think about that for a second).

      She had an honest answer. She was shopping for classes. You know what happens if you don’t register for these courses is you get boxed out and have to wait SEMESTERS to complete course requirements.

      I have no respect for a professor that could have easily turned the other cheek or have let her know “My policy is to refuse entry to those that are more than 15 minutes late. Respect this.” And ended it this way. I would not want to be part of his class if this is his regular behavior.

      1. Let’s not make uninformed claims– NYU Abu Dhabi is totally and completely funded by the Abu Dhabi government. In fact the Abu Dhabi government has given NYU New York tons of money. 50 million dollars was just the initial gift.

      2. You are speaking in major sweeping generalities. See my comment above about students being customers. They aren’t paying for the education they think they need, they are paying for the education that their chosen institution says they need, which includes spankings like the one received by this student.

        When I was a young professor, I tried to be the cool guy. It worked for a while, until I had some students who thought they were my friends, and could come and go as they pleased and ask me for favors on their grades. I had other students, “good students,” come to me and request that I do something about their misbehaving classmates. That’s what happens when students are not held to account.

        This prof sounds more experienced than I was when I started, and knew exactly how to hold students to account and reset any unrealistic expectations. There are some conversations I had to have with students that were not fun at all, but I would not have been doing them any favors by being nice to them. Being ‘nice’ is the kiss of death.

        I can’t speak for NYU or any other expensive colleges since I did my grad work at a state school. There are quite a few experts on the subject of how crappy and deceptive they are on this message board, so I will have to ultimately defer to them. Having worked in higher ed, I know that it takes something to teach, and people don’t do it for the paycheck. While the institution itself may have it’s moral shortcomings, my experience of professors is that they are (and I generalize) very caring, tough loving, big-hearted SOB’s who are absolutely committed to their students’ success. If that means calling them out on their ill-fated plans of “shopping” classes, then that’s what it takes.

        I’ll close with this. Before you go passing judgement on a professor, consider his or her personal commitment to each student on campus, whether or not they ever take his/her class. It’s that commitment that is the difference between a prof who will correct your papers, and one from whom you will actually learn something.

      3. “These students pay their salary.” And, as such, have every right to expect a professor to maintain an environment compatible with effective education – which includes not tolerating self-centred dumbasses who wander in an hour late thinking that they have every right to disrupt the teaching of their fellow classmates as a matter of convenience. The professor was well within his bounds to toss the student out – and well within his bounds to respond to her e-mail as he did.

      4. I attended NYU as an undergraduate, and I agree with the professor. I agree with you that NYU is overpriced, but that’s not the issue at hand. A professor is not there to give everyone an A and kiss asses just because the students are paying for the experience. When a university awards an individual a diploma, the university is acknowledging that it feels this individual has attained a sufficient mastery of the subject. It tells potential employers that the individual is competent. I am a graduate student teaching assistant in mathematics at another large research university. Do you want people who fail to understand calculus to build the bridges you drive on? If professors cowtowed to their students, lots of idiots would get As in calculus, receive engineering degrees, and then build bridges that collapse and kill hundreds of people. This is why the student is not the customer who is also “Always Right”. (I understand that this article addresses the issue of disrespect, not intellectual incompetence, but when it comes to the idea of professors “working for the students” they go hand in hand. Just trying to make a point.)

    7. As a college professor, my school does not allow students to be in class if they are not on the official roster, even if they are “shopping”. Not on my list, then you have to leave. Are you suppose to be on it? Then go to the registrar and get it figured out, here is a syllabus to look at while they fight with the computer. Simple as that. It means you get students coming to you during advisement to see what the class is about or talking to previous class members. It makes the first week of class much more efficient (less swapping) and you do start your lectures on the first day, not after the first week!

      1. Exactly. If your advising staff is up to snuff, shopping shouldn’t be a problem in the first place.

    8. “Political correctness” is a term invented by the right wing to cast “respectful behavior for your fellow humans” as something negative, because it doesn’t further the republican agenda.

      1. Oh…. GOD….
        love political BS. “political correctness” is a way of “politely” telling someone else the way they think or act is wrong… Democrats and Republicans both exercise this futile white wash. My main question (excuse me for getting off the professor student subject here) is when did we lose our democracy and become a solid two party system in this country. Look at all “third” party candidates over the past 50 years. They are given no advertising time, no media access and treated like an insane uncle that needs to be locked in the attic when guests arrive.

        Want to fix the country? Wipe out this idea that Democrats or Republicans have all the answers and get behind a neighbor you know to be a good, honest person. Fill Congress, the Senate and the White House with these kinds of people and see what changes! Filling only one or two seats won’t do it. There needs to be major change across the board with out any single party being given a majority, and then told by the public… “do your job or you will be replaced just as we did with the two useless parties we had.”

    9. Concerned Grad Student | Reply

      I understand what the professor did, but I think his own response was outlandish and unprofessional. My biggest dilemma with this story is that many graduate and even college courses do not require professors to publish a syllabus prior to a class commencing. How is a student supposed to understand if he is interested in the course structure, requirements and projects? This essentially eliminates a huge decision making component in the post secondary education system. If students made as big a deal about this type of rude behavior that many professors neglect to address, then there could be written a hundreds of stories online each semester.

      1. Even if it isn’t “published” online, their email address is certainly available. I have never had a problem, as a student or instructor, in either receiving or providing a syllabus requested this way.

    10. Actually, he’s an ass at a public college in the USA. This student has every right to sample the lectures that this supposed professional is offering. Now, as a paying student, I would want to get the most and best lectures out of my money. Is it that hard to comprehend as a college professor to realize this. It shouldn’t according to the essay he wrote to the student, who in his own words was extending a salute of decency. If he didn’t do anything that woudl have been rude. But, he extended the branch of diplomacy and all the professor did was shit on him. He’s not getting paid for that student coming to his class, which is how he gets paid. Great job, professor. What a tool.

      1. I agree with LR McLellan below. Why do people need to be coddled and spoon-fed everything? Do some work for yourself for once? In my undergrad I was busy looking up professors on ratemyprof.com (or whatever it’s called… it’s been a few years) as well as emailing a professor about the class if I didn’t know someone who had already taken it and asked them. It’s really not that hard and doesn’t take more than 10-15 minutes to complete (and since it’s before classes start, you have all the free time in the world).

        And what are you thinking? “If he didn’t do anything that would have been rude”? Seriously? I doubt the professor would have even given it a second thought until the student felt entitled enough to send his e-mail, trying to pass blame onto the professor because (s)he showed up an hour late (besides, give me 1 example where it is perfectly acceptable to show up an hour late to something… and I don’t mean fashionably late to a party… i mean to a REAL scheduled event). And that email was far from a branch of diplomacy for the reason i just stated. It was the student trying hard to trump the teacher for pointing out how wrong they were.

        Also, the professor does not get paid for that student coming to class. He gets paid for teaching. One student deciding not to take a class does not get that teacher fired or lower their salary. Uncommon sense is what it’s all about.

    11. Our “brightest and best” students are so lazy and used to being spoon fed and having their diapers changed, they are stunned when they meet reality. I have barred students who are late. I have dismissed those who choose to talk in class and asked them not to return. I have done similar things with employees who did not appreciate their employment and respect their fellow workers/classmates. Mama and Daddy are not here to intervene for you. Get your s**t together or get out!! My motto exactly.

    12. Let’s change this situation a bit. Does buying a movie ticket entitle you to disrupt a theatre full of people? Yes, you are the customer, and yes, you paid an exorbitant price to sit in a dark room with other people, but does this mean you are allowed to break the accepted social norms of the situation? If an usher asked you to stop talking on your cell or stop standing in the aisle, would you tell him that you paid for the ticket, and you’ll act anyway way you damn well want? If he responded by forcing you to leave the theatre to preserve the experience for the other movie goers, would he be justified?

    13. This is great! So many young people have this sense entitlement these days. They feel they can do whatever they want, without consequence. They feel they are owed something in life without, ever having worked for anything. Prof. Galloway is right on the money with his reply. The student should have at least gone to each of the professors, whose classes he/she wanted to sit in on, and asked if it would be alright to do so. For those of you out there that think the professor used harsh words, or foul language, then you haven’t been in a classroom in a long time. Things have changed quite a bit. Sometimes the best way to get through to students, especially college students on the verge of being in the real world, is to be straight forward, blunt, and yes “real” with them.

      1. Now I don’t agree with the student at all in this situation but I just hope you realise this Jose, not only young people have a sense of entitlement and I’m pretty tired of people pegging everyone young as naive, rude and expectant of special treatment. We are not all like that. As a matter of fact I have a few professors at my school who feel they are completely entitled to belittle students as they please… yes Martin Sullivan, I’m talking about you.

    14. typical business school professors…absolutely NO humility. If someone is paying 100k for an education they have every right to walk into a class and stay there. If it is a re-occuring situation I understand, but it shouldn’t be acceptable to kick students out for tardiness on the first day of classes. And this professor should learn how to have some humility and respect and not think he owns the world…advice to ALL business school professors w/ ultra- I am God ego’s.

    15. hahaha some of these comments are hilarious and a bit “sad”. Here are the facts people so listen please I’ll walk you through it….1 )The student is paying for his/her education, so to make it simple for you to understand…you pay for a service, a teacher to teach you so that you can learn. I will pay you X amount of dollars to teach me about “something” YOU DON’T HAVE A PRIVILEDGE TO TAKE THE CLASS BECAUSE YOU PAYED FOR IT. ITS A BUSINESS NOT A PRIVILEGE, IF I PAY FOR SOMETHING AND YOU TELL ME TO GET OUT AND DON’T PROVIDE THAT SERVICE THEN YOU ARE IN THE WRONG. To help this teacher out…next time, don’t even acknowledge the student who enters late, if it continues confront them, THE TEACHER IS WORKING FOR YOU, NOT TO BE YOUR SLAVE AND DO WHAT YOU WANT. He has a job to do, you paid for him to do that JOB, all he has to do is teach, shut-up and teach, do the lectures, give the tests, give the grades, it’s his job to teach his “subject-matter” Both of them are partially wrong, the student doesn’t need to write a dumb e-mail (Here’s a free life lesson- never put anything negative on paper/e-mail/voice-mail/Facebook/twitter/ this website.. that will trace back to you) The teacher needs to understand he teachers business and is not a guidance counselor or life teacher. It’s nice that he tried to help the student by giving his opinion but it’s not what he is being paid to do. Those of you that side with the teacher are wrong, I’m sorry I know it hurts. You can make it political and say it’s entitlement but that doesn’t make any sense in this situation so maybe you should go back to school again. Education is a business. I pay, you teach. It’s simple. You can give X amount of scenarios, but they are all irrelevant so don’t. I pay, you teach. Simple, straight forward. Boom roasted, You’re welcome.

    16. Where was he non-politically correct? The response was mature and wise. That is considered non-politically correct these days? I’m guessing you are thinking of people who like to be asses to people and are too lazy to do what this professor did. I’ve seen people clap and praise that kind of “non-politically correct”. This professor was articulate and compassionate. He was professionally respectful and did not go the road of demeaning the student.

    17. I think this professor is awfully full of himself.

      In this day and age where so many students aimlessly take courses “just for a grade” without any real idea of what they want out of it (or what they want out of their education in general besides being able to say they have a degree), I have to say that I admire the student’s initiative to seek out multiple (conflicting time) courses first before deciding which one to take. It is his/her money paying the tuition after all, so I don’t blame him/her for being choosy about which course s/he is taking. I commend any student that puts thought and consideration into his education planning, instead of picking classes based on “not being too early in the morning” “not having class on Fridays” etc.

      And as a former higher ed instructor, my first classes of the semester (as this was in the email) were generally introductions to myself, the course, and a broad overview of what the students could expect to be doing and learning over the course of the semester. It is the perfect class for interested students to check out to see if they like my teaching style and are interested in the course’s learning objectives. It would not bother me at all if a student dropped in for 20 min to decide between my class and another offered at the same time. But then again, I have confidence enough in my teaching that I know they’d choose me!

    18. @grammarnazi you ended your sentence in a preposition, but i agree with you

    19. Loved it!!!!

    20. First, I can’t believe that anyone would side with the student here. There is a lot of talk of money here, and what that “buys” you. This gives me the urge to explain these concepts, but then I stop and think: “How in the hell do people not get that is an issue of proper public behavior and manners? Hell, do they even understand the concept of “manners”?!” But I am not going to waste my time explaining such elementary things – nor should anyone else. Here is what I would like to contribute to this debate…. I have been a student at multiple universities, nationally known universities like Purdue and even top-ten universities like Northwestern, where I went to graduate school. And in no university have I ever been able to schedule more than one class for the same timeslot. So, what could be presumed here, is that he wasn’t actually enrolled for the course (or maybe he was, but then wouldn’t have actually been enrolled in the other two he did his taste test on). So, in effect, he was auditing the course for the day. And it’s my understanding that a student may not audit any course just because he or she feels like it; the student must get permission from the professor (at least) before going to the class. So, essentially, the student was going to classes that he wasn’t even invited to join in on. Sooo, not only was he an hour late to the party, he crashed the party as well. Hmmm. Maybe I should just look up some classes that I might be interest in at NU, and just walk in on them. Hell, I’m still a student there. I pay a LOT of money to go there for all my degrees. I should totally be able to just sample any ol’ class of my choosing. Right? (For those of you who don’t get it, I’m being facetious. And facetious means…. wait… oh never mind). YOU’RE NOT BUYING THE RIGHT TO BE AN IDIOT OR RUDE!! There is nothing stopping any student from doing their due diligence to make the very best decision they can about the classes they choose. (Perhaps ASK to audit the class in a previous semester to get a feel for the class, or do one – or all – of the many things that others, including the professor at Stern, have suggested here.) But there are proper and improper ways to go about these things. And if you can’t grasp that, then going to grad school – or, better yet, even college – may not be what you need to work towards next; maybe some life lessons on manners from Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood would be a better starting point for you. And what still has me shocked and curious…. How the hell did he get into Stern??

    21. The professor has some relevant points. He has a perspective of someone who runs the show but has not experienced what it is like to be directly lectured in probably quite some time. This perspective is not wrong, just “different”. The bottom line is school is a business. And if institutions want to charge students with anywhere from 3000-25000 dollars to attend, then students should have the right to show up whenever they see fit–academic morality aside.

    22. Just for the record, this is not a “mean” professor. Just because some people can not handle the truth does not make him “mean”. He is being honest and he is an example of what more adults should be. I work with kids and the problem with this generation is they are praised for everything they do, makes them horrible people. this professor is a hero and more authoritative figures need to be like him. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD

  2. Antonia Kilpatrick | Reply

    I wish there were more professors like this out there. Kids today as so damned self absorbed. This is not a generational thing, it’s about “me, me and me!” I would hate to work and worse supervise someone like that student: nightmare. Also an HR nightmare.

    1. Anyone can be self absorbed regardless of age, sex, etc. Don’t generalize.

      1. Professors today will tell you that students act in their classes in a way that was unthinkable when we were undergraduates. I opened a lecture with a request that students not talk to each other during class…while they paid attention awhile, the most egregious offenders were chatting away within the hour. No policy about classroom decorum is respected, yet there’s resentment if you stop a lecture to ask for quiet and attention. Professors have just learned that respect is a thing of the past, and if you ask for it, you’ll be trashed on the student evals, which are now the end-all and be-all of determining if a professor is a quality teacher.

      2. Jessica,

        “Professors have just learned that respect is a thing of the past, and if you ask for it, you’ll be trashed on the student evals, which are now the end-all and be-all of determining if a professor is a quality teacher.”

        Respect is a thing of the past? Better check your attitude. Last I knew an employer would be showing your the door. You expect a paycheck from them and you want to trash them? Better get real!

        You might find it is a different world when your employer fires you for being late. Trashing your employer certainly might make you feel better, but your potential next employer won’t find your attitude or comments appreciable.

      3. Jessica is absolutely right. The person who took umbrage with her reply has *absolutely no idea* what the world of academia is like, thank goodness for those of us who *do*.

      4. Of course Jessica is right. People like “Anonymous #1″ doesn’t realize the brutal effect that politicians have had on public education.

      5. Oh, there are most definitely distinct generational differences. As a Gen Xer in the workplace, my style is very different from Baby Boomers. And Gen Yers are different still. I hate to say it, but managing a staff of Gen Yers for 2 years completely burned me out on management. I did just fine for the previous 10 years managing Baby Boomers and other Gen Xers. The need for constant feedback and reassurance was exhausting, as was the constant demands to “make my job meaningful to me”. What this NYU student did pretty much screams of typical Gen Y behavior, based on my workplace experiences.
        http://www.fdu.edu/newspubs/magazine/05ws/generations.htm

      6. I am a professor. A young, female professor in a neuroscience department. I demand respect in my class and I get it without much issue. I had two students who decided it would be okay for them to talk while I spoke. I gave them one warning in which they were told not to talk while I talked or they would be asked to leave. This lasted a few weeks. Once they began to talk again, I told them to go. They may trash me on my eval, but I know several other students who came up to thank me afterward because it is distracting. These kids (or their parents) pay to go to school and want and education without the distraction of some idiot who just wants to flirt with the person next to them for the next 1.5 hours. I have been a professor for 4 years now. I have had very few bad evaluations and I have had many good ones. I also enjoy teaching and am enthusiastic about what I do and sharing it with others. Many of the students have been coddled their whole life and need to learn what respect is, but you can’t demand respect without giving it back.

      7. Donna- I have to grudgingly agree with you. Oy. I’ve had the same experience…

    2. Ugh the kids of today learned their manners from their parents and their parents’ generation. If kids today are rude, it is because their rude parents and their parents’ rude generation did not teach them any manners. I was raised by parents who valued good manners, simple things like “please” and “thank you” and treating others with decency and civility. I am a Gen X’er. My parents had me old – they are from the Greatest Generation.

      I cannot count on all the fingers and toes of every person living in my city how many people without manners there are – of all ages. From flipping people off for something stupid in traffic to talking on cell phones while standing on line at the checkout counter, exposing every single person around to an inane and usually totally unimportant conversation which could be saved for later when one is *not* making others wait, to people placing orders using “Give me,” “Yeah, I’ll have,” “I’ll take,” “I want,” or “Get me,” and then failing to say “thank you,” I see it every day, every time I leave my office and go anywhere. People are rude, and it is *NOT* just “kids.” I hear and see this rudeness from people of *ALL* ages. Americans seem to have collectively forgotten how to be civil to one another. But please, don’t blame it on the kids today.

      My daughter always says please and thank you. As a 16 year old, she’s still a kid, and she’s got better manners than many people I see out and about who are two, three, even four times her age.

      1. I am a 20 year old and I would like to say, that as much as I would like to blame the lack of manners from some on one’s parents, you cannot generalize this for all rude teenagers and people. It is true that a lack of parenting can be the cause to this, it cannot only be attributed to that. Many times kids do what they please regardless of parenting.

        I have many friends who have extremely good parents (to a degree) and always try to get them to be mindful of others and have manners. However, they still show a lack of respect and manners to others. I also have seen the opposite in some of my friends. So in a nutshell, I would agree to what you are saying, but only a certain degree. Parenting does play a factor in the respectfulness of their children and their manners, but it is only to a slim factor.

        I do not believe that it is right to blame one’s parents fully for their children’s shortcomings. The blame must be placed on the person him or herself. That is another problem with the world (America) today, blaming others for their own problems, such as obesity etc etc… But that is another problem and topic of its own.

        PS. I did not mean any disrespect in posting/replying this to you. I only wanted to share my own opinion as a male, 20 year old college student.

      2. Dear Juliana and Jonathan,

        I (partially) agree with both of you. I guess it’d safe to say that, things are hardly ever really just black, or white. From your comments, I suppose it would all boil down to the debate of nature vs. nurture. Have science progressed to the point where it’s possible to exactly/accurately quantify the role of either one ? Is it 50:50 or 20:80 or 80:20 or…?
        If so, I so sorry, I under a rock :P

    3. This isn’t a problem with the ‘kids of today’. This person is just irresponsible. S/He made a stupid life choice and got what was coming to him/her. Personally, I feel the professor was being very kind. The complements that were peppered in weren’t necessary. The student is an adult and should act like one. But don’t judge every below the age of 30 (or whatever your arbitrary limit for being ‘young’ is) based on this person’s one moronic decision. The offended professor didn’t judge them, why should you?

    4. If you have a problem with the youth of today, I suggest you look at how you or your contemporaries raised them and what you provided as examples. I also suggest you remember how you were at that age without the rose-colored glasses. Shockingly enough, 20 year-olds often do not know what they want to do or be or who they are or are that conscientious about the finesse involved in navigating the overwhelming egos of a college institution. And especially if one is privileged enough to be accepted to Stern or one of the other top B schools, you may have worked hard to get there but it’s a lifestyle of privilege that affords you that opportunity in the first place. On the other hand, I would expect a 40-something/50-something professor, a “leader in business” to have a little more sense to get all worked up by a young student’s presumptuous but polite email enough to take the pissy action Professor Galloway did.

    5. I teach at a large state university, and I make it very simple to my students: Anything disruptive will not be tolerated. I give a warning, and then you’re out. Done. I also turn off my phone, and make sure I set the example to students that I do not teach by a double standard. I find that if you are consistent in the enforcement of any policy from day one, 95% of your students take you seriously.

      The ones that are in your class to get an education without having someone be rude and/or interuptive will respect you. The ones that are there killing time because they don’t know what they want to be when they grow up will probably give you the most grief – but they would have anyway.

      As for the professor, I think sending it to the whole class is a bit much, but I agree with what he says – even though I would have taken a different approach. Direct feedback is a lost art these days, and it would serve many students well if they knew how to process it. They usually don’t experience it until they are in their bosses office about to get fired. Too bad.

    6. AT $60,000 A YEAR THE KID HAD A DAMN GOOD RIGHT TO BE SELF-ABSORBED.

      1. “AT $60,000 A YEAR THE KID HAD A DAMN GOOD RIGHT TO BE SELF-ABSORBED.” said Romney. Seriously? You’re losing sight of the argument. And this, my friends, is why the rich think they matter more. What you’re paying isn’t giving you the right to change policy. If so, then a degree shouldn’t be earned, you should just be able to write a check and get the certificate in the mail. We are creating business people of the future and if they go by your theory, we are in the same trouble we’ve been in for the past many years….

      2. So what about those paying $60,000 that wanted to actually learn? Not saying that sending the email to the entire class was right, but some students want to learn.

  3. Regardless of the teacher’s policy, anyone who has attended NYU for more than five minutes knows there is a strict attendance policy – more than 15 minutes late = absent. More than two absences with no doctor’s note? Drop a letter grade. This kid’s ingenuous manner is complete b.s.

    1. Not just NYU, nearly every university has zero tolerance policies for tardiness greater than 15 minutes (except verified, valid reasons). That type of tardiness disrupts the entire lecture.

      1. “That type of tardiness disrupts the entire lecture.” Give me a break. Yes, I’m sure Professor Galloway has amazingly magical information that will change the lives of every student who attends his lecture. Really? So the kid was being presumptuous, but Professor Galloway’s response is really ridiculous and self-important. I’m sure Professor Galloway is an amazing success that everyone NEEDS to listen to in his own mind, but if I were that student I would consider myself blessed to know what a dick he was and to stay as far away as possible when navigating the “politics of an organization” like Stern. No one finds it ironic the kid was offering feedback specifically regarding “manners and demonstrating a level of humility” Professor Galloway contemptibly rejects and then chastises and proselytizes about in return?

      2. @Countervail Really? Then why can’t he show up an hour late to lecture? After all, the students paying for his class must figure no one really NEEDS to listen to him or learn any “magical information.” If you choose to attend college and sign up for a course, then you abide by simple rules. It is not that different from the workplace. Do you NEED to be there the full 8 or 9 hours a day to get all your work done? Maybe not, but it is still expected of you regardless.

      3. @countervail: maybe it is ironic, but the most presumptuous thing about the email was that the kid felt that he was in a position where he could remind the teacher of his manners.

        The student thinks he is informed enough to tell the quality of a class relative to others by listening to 20 minutes of a lecture, then makes an excuse by trying explain his genius plan to the teacher he interrupted. Nowhere in the email does the student apologize, he simply claims ignorance about the rules because he had more important things to do, like interrupt other professors.

        Maybe the professor is self-absorbed, but the other 80 people in the class obviously thought something important would be occurring because they were there and registered for the class.

        Perhaps I should explain to my next boss that I couldn’t possibly be expected to be on time the first day because I was sampling other jobs that occurred simultaneously. Then when I get yelled at, remind my boss how self-absorbed he is to think that every minute of his time counts.

      4. @countervail. you miss understand the professor’s message. He isn’t speaking strictly for himself but actually for all teachers, and he is right. He may not have something life changing to say every lecture, or in even one lecture, but you can bet at some point one professor is going to say something that hits you right then and there, or something seemingly small that sticks with you the rest of your life. It happened with my teachers, they taught me some important lessons. You can’t disrespect the professors of 3 different classes and expect to get away with it in such a way. If you’re going to do something commit to it and do it right. Don’t do what this kid did.

      5. Nearly every university? These kinds of policies are almost unheard of in science/engineering classes.

      6. The point here is not how much disruption is caused by one student arriving an hour late; it is how much disruption would be caused if it were generally accepted behaviour.

      7. I agree with anonymous above- this policy is not at all common in science/engineering programs (possibly because classes are often larger lectures with less teacher-student interaction). I did my undergrad at MIT and my grad work at Duke, and I’ve never heard of such a policy.

      8. In fact, attendance is entirely irrelevant at many schools. I’ve taken several classes which I attended a total of five times (first day, 3 exams, and final). As long as you do well on exams and problem sets, you can still get an A.

  4. I so admire this professor. That student is not invested in her own education. She needed a wake-up call.

    1. It was a guy. He said “his laptop”

      1. Actually, the correct way to address someone of unknown gender is using male-pronouns, i.e. ‘his’ laptop.

      2. @King, “they” is an increasingly accepted gender-neutral pronoun to use to refer to an individual.

      3. The professor asked the student to leave the lecture hall, which would indicate to us Professor Galloway saw the student. Knowing this, and the fact that Prof. Galloway received the original email from the student with their name, it seems fairly apparent the student was male, as indicated by the use of “his” in Prof Galloway’s email. Although having seen the student and their name does not necessarily mean there couldn’t be a mistake on Professor Galloway’s part, but it seems more likely that the author made the mistake when referring to the student as female. I don’t know why we would trust the author reporting this story second hand about the gender of the person more so than Prof Galloway’s.

      4. @AG: Absolutely true, and it’s definitely used the most. But i’m only speaking strictly in the proper english rule in the case. Seems the professor is very knowledgeable of the proper grammar & general english rules, so i figured it was more so that he said ‘his’ for that reason.

    2. I assumed it was a woman too. Call me sexist but the only people I know who would pull a sampling of classes are women. Most of my guy friends would enroll and stick it out or drop it.

      1. Well, now you’ve got a reason to stop assuming that.

      2. you are sexist

      3. louise nevelson

        the introduction states: “a student walked into the 1st day of class an hour late and the professor told HER to leave & come back to the next class” . . . so it potentially could still be a female. Androgynous name perhaps?

      4. The article summary said “her” so I don’t know why you would think it was a guy. I didn’t notice the “his” in the professor’s email really. You’re not sexist.

      5. You’re not sexist for assuming the student was female based on the choice of pronouns used, but you ARE sexist for implying that women are flightier than men, who are, according to you, more likely to “stick it out.” This student, male or female, needed to have a wakeup call. And so do you if you think it’s appropriate to make snap judgments about half the population of the Earth.

      6. Apparently Also A Sexist

        Women aren’t flightier than men. In situations like these they generally have reduced consequences from expressed flightiness, and so tend to engage in behaviors that most men wouldn’t.

      7. Yes, Apparently Also A Sexist indeed. I never had a professor who doled out different consequences for men and women. Women and men are different, but the implication here is that men are more responsible, while women rely on their femininity to avoid consequences while displaying irresponsible behavior. Shameful.

      8. I think you all need to relax and stop taking a typo so seriously.

      9. Uhh I’m a guy and I sure as hell sampled classes before committing to them. Why buy a car without taking it for a drive first?

      10. It’s a simple matter really. Making observations on the differences in appearance and behaviour between men and women is not sexist. Making statements that peg the reasons and motivations behind one particular observed individuals decisions or actions as as a group (in this case sex) characteristic, is sexist.

      11. If the observation you are making about the “differences in behavior” between the sexes is in fact an inaccurate generalization that trades in sexist tropes, then it is, in fact, sexist.

      12. In response to Colleen, the tendency to stick it out as opposed to being flighty is not meant in a derogatorily sexist way. As a man finishing uni who is friends with girls and guys in uni, we (men) often stick with it because it works in the schedule, the prof is easy, we are lazy, or a whole host of other reasons. All the girls I know are flighty in the way that they take more care and time into having the perfect schedule/ classes. A lot of men are like this, just as a lot of girls are also lazy like the men I’m referring to. Another thing is that girls take care in planning their courses whereas a lot of guys just pick the required ones and only research things hours before class registration. Sort of sexist to note these kinds of things, but it’s really just the way people tend to be- much in the same way that girls tend to have long hair and earrings and guys tend to have short hair: not always true but its the way things tend to be.

    3. Sexist Sympathizer | Reply

      So wait, if the ratio of women vs. men who sampled classes was studied and ended up around, I don’t know, 75% to 25%, would that still make these people sexist? Would I be a sexist if I saw somebody with long hair, make-up, full breasts, and assumed it was a girl? Where’s the line here…

      1. This is a complete straw man argument. If those statistics actually existed (that is, if you weren’t just completely making it up that 75% of class-samplers were women), you MIGHT have a point. Even then, though, it wouldn’t absolve anyone of sexism to assume as such.

        Also, your argument about what you see with your own eyes has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You would naturally assume that someone with long hair, makeup and full breasts is a female (although there are some very convincing drag queens in the world) and no one could fault you if you turned out to be incorrect. If you assume that a Jew is greedy, an Asian is a bad driver and a woman is rude and indecisive, as the poster to whom we’re replying did in assuming the student was female based SOLELY on the behavior displayed, you might have a problem with racism, sexism and generally making sweeping generalizations.

      2. basically from Colleen argument, you can only assume things that she agrees with. but if she does not agree with the assumption then it is sexism. Good job Colleen. Saying that girls are usually one way and guys are usually another way is not wrong. Everyone…and I mean everyone does that, even if they don’t say they do. We make assumptions about people and act on those assumptions. Glad there are people like you though that help me realize that my closed mindedness is terrible in comparison to your closedmindedness.

      3. I sort of randomly found this page, but man are there a lot of idiots here! If you think Colleen is being closed-minded here, you’re nuts. Your argument was completely vapid and she owned you with facts. Deal with it.

        -hdg

  5. Does the professor have the right to say such things; yes, they do. But the larger question is who are they doing it for? To help the student or to boost their ego? I teach at a university and I can attest for a decline in manners and respect among students. It is our job as educators to set them on track and help them to find their way. I think of myself as a hard but a fair teacher. I adhere to my policies very strictly with the hopes that the students understand that this, along with the course material, is part of their education. But I also know that the first day of class can be a little crazy. Students are figuring out what classes they want and trying to find out where they are supposed to be. Why be so harsh on the first day? What are you gaining in this? The teachers job is to help the student. That is why we are there. I’m not saying bend over backwards for them, but put them on track. And that diatribe about logic, policy, decision making or critical thinking…please. That doesn’t mean you have to be an asshole (at least not on the first day). Don’t be so righteous.

    1. Yes, the student is trying to figure out what he wants to be. But stated himself that he is not a normal undergraduate, but an MBA candidate.

    2. Yes, I agree with you Steve. The professor’s response doesn’t set a good example. If the intention is to tell the student to demonstrate a level of humility, the professor doesn’t set a good example of that himself. The student may have been self-absorbed, but the professor sets an even lower example by being egotistic. If he comes from a place of caring and wants to send the student a wake-up call, there are many ways to do it besides this slap in the face email. The student’s email was respectful and straightforward, which I appreciate and which shows she has enough humility and respect to learn from her mistake. However, the professor, especially in his position, needs to acquire or re-acquire these qualities.

      1. The student’s e-mail was minimally polite, but it was NOT respectful or humble, nor did it show willingness to learn from a mistake, since the student clearly believes he or she did not make a mistake. Read it again. The student did not at any point apologize for coming late or admit poor judgment. Instead, (s)he faults the professor for not guessing why (s)he came so late and making an exception for a reason that’s just as rude as any other. Not only that, but there was no reason at all for the student to write the e-mail except to save his or her own ego, since said student has already decided to take a different class (and seems to think this will make the professor regret his actions, as if professors are clamoring for students who don’t respect them enough to show up at the beginning of class and stay to the end). The default thing to do would be to let it drop and continue in the other class.

        The professor’s response may be a little over the top (and there really was no need to forward it to the whole class), but I don’t think it was egotistical so much as bluntly putting a mirror up to the student’s self-absorbed attitude (“*I* need to shop for classes, never mind if my interruption lowers the quality of the class for everyone else! And then I will hold my professor responsible for what I missed for the hour I wasn’t there and whine again when it shows up on the test!”)

        Professors understand that sometimes students want extra time to choose classes, and WANT to give them that chance, within reason, to ensure that students aren’t stuck in a class where they are likely to fail, cause problems, or be miserable. But there are more and less respectful ways to “shop.” The best thing to do is contact the professors a week before classes start and ask for a syllabus to help you decide. If you’re still hesitating after comparing syllabi, explain your dilemma and ask permission to sit in on one class the first day, the other class the next, and make a decision after that, or if the classes aren’t at the same time. It is never OK to roam around campus from class to class during one time slot to sample a few minutes of each, and that should be obvious to anyone who thinks for two seconds about how that might affect the class dynamic and infringe on the rights of professors and fellow students.

      2. What’s the point in being ‘respectful’ when an employer would fire you instantly. The reason why this student felt they could ever do such indecisive apathetic actions is the precise reason why you just stated. People need to stop siding with people who believe they are owed something or that we can’t be harsh or truthful. Life is hard get used to it, and university is EXACTLY where this should be being taught to curve such self sentenced views of the world.

      3. If the student was an undergraduate– especially an underclassman– I might agree with you. But s/he wasn’t. This is an MBA candidate we’re talking about. They’ve already had 4 years of college to get a grip on the basics of classroom protocol (to say nothing of common courtesy). Someone at a graduate level pulling this crap– especially in a highly-esteemed B-school program–is demonstrating an attitude of complete entitlement, and the professor was well within his rights to let them have it. Sure, it could have been put a little more diplomatically, but this student had already made it clear that subtlety was not a strong suit.

    3. They are doing it for the student. The professor could have simply not replied. The professor, instead, took maybe an hour of their time to compose this message.

      This message has LIFE advice. That the student needs to learn. The professor has done him a huge favor – IF the student actually takes it.

      1. “K” you hit it on the head, I came into my teaching position after years of running a small business, I teach my students not only facts on the subject, but life skills to help them with their careers, such as “on time” is 30 minutes early…

      2. In my experience, the professor didn’t waste an hour of his time on the reply. . . try 5-7 minutes at the most.

    4. well said,

      The students message to the professor was very neutral in tone and well written in my opinion. The response on the other hand seemed fairly disproportionate and borderline childish, not to mention reeking of ego. Emailing it to your entire class? It’s so obnoxiously, contemptuously patronizing it’s hard to believe. The reality is that being flexible on day one seems like a reasonable request, and to some further up in the comments who claimed that the student in question “was not invested in their own education” I would ask: how is planning to attend 3 separate classes in order to determine what is the best fit not “being invested”. As someone who is actually paying for mba courses right now, getting stuck with a shit professor is something to be avoided at all costs. Taking initiative to get the best schedule for a term should be commended, not ridiculed by a petulant and self-righteous ass.

      1. I agree the professor sounds irritated. I would have been much more free with derision in his place, though. Are you kidding me with that? What grown person excuses being an hour late on the grounds that they ‘couldn’t have known it wouldn’t be ok’? Maybe the student can ask his folks to intervene? I hear parents are going on job interviews nowadays, and this student certainly seems the type to accept that assistance.

      2. I take “best fit” to mean “Whichever professor will allow me to do the least amount of work and skate my sorry ass past this material with a passing grade.”

        That’s clearly what this student was looking for, and it’s clearly what you seem to look for. This kid’s attitude was condescending, selfish garbage and the professor was exceedingly polite in his response.

      3. In truth, he is probably lucky to have this student out of his class. This type of student is the kind that asks for favors and extensions because they think they are “special” in some way.

      4. ‘neutral in tone and well written’, but also completely unapologetic which is the first thing it should be.
        I actually think the neatest thing about the exchange is that the tone of the reply is completely appropriate to the original email, it has the same self importance but without the entitled naivety of the original

      5. A quick consideration of why, after being notified of his/her mistake, the student wrote an e-mail about being ‘bothered’ to a professor whose class won’t be taken is pretty clear indication that the e-mail is not in fact ‘neutral’, but a pretty presumptuous asshole move.

        Dear sir,

        I’m ‘bothered’ that you yelled at me after I farted in your face considering that (1) you never told me I couldn’t do that and (2) I had really bad gas. No, I’m not apologizing. I thought I should be treated better.

        Regards,
        Ass

      6. I agree with brian. The student was looking for which classes best suits him/her. I don’t think that just by walking in late, disturbs the class. The profesor interupted his own class. He could of just asked the student to see him after class. And to add insult to injury he emails It to the entire class! The profesor was just using this student as an example just to put fear in the other students. I don’t think it’s What You say, but How You say. Yes it’s a life lesson, but i don’t really think that this student is going to be an hour late to work just because he was sampling clases. The student was not rude in his email, i think he was just letting the profesor know that this was a one time thing. There is something called decorum, which was lacking in the profesor’s response.

      7. What I have not seen addressed is how a student could miss the beginning of the class, and presumably whatever introduction to the class, coursework and syllabi were provided and think that is an acceptable means by which to determine which class is best. I do, actually, understand the value of choosing which class from among several that fit your degree plan and fill requirements would be a ‘best fit’ for your intellectual pursuits, time and interest, but this was not only an enormously disrespectful way to go about it, it’s particularly unintelligent, and reeks of seeking the class with the lowest expectations or work assignments. And I completely disagree that the tone of the email was neutral or well-written. It was whiny, complacent, and the final shot was entitlement in a nutshell.

    5. I agree – it seems a bit harsh. I imagine the prof was using this as a warning to the other students. Sounds like he’s fed up with entitlement, and I don’t blame him.

      1. Well said, I left a teaching position that catered to the checkbook of the parents, “pass them regardless” was the unwritten attitude of the school. This instructor
        did this student the biggest favor of their life by treating him (or her) as the real world will.

    6. Steve brings up a very important point. The academic world is so full of ego, and his letter seems rife with it. The professor has valid points, but so does the student. Let’s not forget that the student pays huge tuition fees. The most important point the professor makes is that the student should learn to think ahead of time, research policies, and even contact the professor ahead of time to let them know or ask permission. Students should always be respectful of teachers. But at the same time, respect is earned, those are just the facts. Students should be allowed to “shop” around to find the right fit for their success in their education (though, in a more respectful way than interrupting class). Employers would be wise to remember that even though they are always in the power position, no one can escape the higher truth that life is a two way street. I’ve seen this play out in the working world, and I think ultimately, employers are missing out when they don’t listen to feedback, when jump to conclusions, and when they don’t listen to their employees or consider their employees’ lives, wishes, goals, desires, at least to some degree. I also think professors and employers would be wise to check their ageist bullying tactics. Young people have a lot to offer, are smart and energetic, … and, they grow up.

      1. “The student pays high tuition fees”? Please. If you want it your way, right away, go to burger king. You wouldn’t walk into a five star restaurant, disrupt the dining experience for everyone, and then write a letter stating that you were “bothered” when they threw you out. Well, maybe you would. But an MBA candidate at Stern should certainly know better, if (s)he deserves to be there. Any, by the way, every student in that room pays high tuition fees.

      2. I’m sorry…the student has no valid points. Not one.

      3. No the student DOES not have any valid points. The professor was 100% current in his response, and was merely being a good educator by forwarding the exchange on to his entire class. If even one of them learns that they need to take full responsibility for ALL their actions, the professor succeeds.

      4. The prof is up the hierarchy chain and the student is at the bottom. This is the way the academic world works. Perhaps it is not fair. Life is not fair. Deal with it.

      5. Concerning this idea that respect is earned… This professor has an advanced degree and the stories start states they are a “popular” professor. Even given these facts since the student has never met the professor this logic train then must follow that the student is under no pressure to conform to simple rules of decorum since the professor has not earned the students respect yet. Crazy. You know I wonder if the student would be upset if I walked into their weddings 40 minutes late and causing a distraction. If I lived the basic principle above … the bride, groom, and guest have not earned my respect yet since I don’t know them, so no issue here. OK, in that example you respond that I have not “purchased” anything… OK let’s instead try walking into a play or movie in the middle of it and then climbing over everyone to find a seat. I assume the student would have no issue with this either as I don’t know them, the performers, or anyone else in the theater so they have earned my respect.

    7. This student is a Master’s candidate. If, by that level in education, you don’t have the common sense to do your homework on courses BEFORE the semester begins there’s something seriously wrong with the undergraduate education you’ve received. Graduate professors ARE NOT responsible for teaching their students manners (particularly in fields such as business where many students are ‘older’ and have years of work experience).

      1. Oh, wow, I missed the Master’s candidate part in my reading. That makes the student’s behavior even more insufferable. Ugh.

    8. “The first day can be a bit crazy”. If you walked into your first day at work 1 hour late and then wrote your boss the ridiculous email the student sent the professor, you would no doubt be let go. The job market is so hard to get into, being entitled and pretentious will guarantee that a recent grad stays nothing but a grad.

    9. Let them tell that to a “BOSS” if they find a job…ijs
      By now they are suppose to be “GROWN”…!!!

    10. Steve, you indicate that you are an educator. Well, I hope that either you do not teach English and/or that your grammar-checker is not working. The quality of the writing in your response is indicative of the problems that we have in education today.

      1. Anonymous, I’m also an educator. Since I have the advantage of anonymity in this case, I’ll give you a response that may or may not be grammatically correct, but will carry the message quite well: shut the fuck up if you have nothing of value to contribute. It’s clear that your motivation in correcting Steve’s grammar was to discredit the content of his message by discrediting Steve (e.g., an ad hominem attack). Additionally, you managed a broad swipe at education by introducing a second logical fallacy: Composition. And speaking of the word “composition,” your response was composed poorly. Your use of “and/or” was clumsy and lazy, breaking the flow of the sentence. The ad hominem, the carelessness of poor writing in a critique of poor writing, and your attempt at indicting the entire education system on the basis of one response all indicate that you probably don’t have anything of value to contribute. Therefore, I feel well justified in telling you to shut the fuck up.

    11. There is a very concise description in the course directory on what a class will entail. The kid was full of shit. NEVER MISS CLASS…. EVER!
      Props to the professor – especially for sending it to EVERYONE in class.

    12. Well if it’s a professor than it’s who is he or she doing it for….

      Moving along. Yep, he who casts the first stone, be he without sin.

    13. “the teachers job is to help the student. ”

      That is exactly what this professor did in writing his response, and in sharing the exchange with his class. The student in question showed total disrespect to the class, to the professor and to himself. The professor sought to teach that student what they did wrong and help guide them into making better choices in the future. The professor also helped teach the entire class that their actions have consequences. If even one of them thinks of this exchange the next time they face a similar situation and opts to act with respect and good manners, then the professor will have been wildly successful.

    14. Wait a second — you adhere to your policies “very strictly” on the one hand, but you suggest cutting the student slack on the first day on the other hand? How about picking a position and sticking with it!

  6. Yes, I agree with you Steve. The professor’s response doesn’t set a good example. If the intention is to tell the student to demonstrate a level of humility, the professor doesn’t set a good example of that himself. The student may have been self-absorbed, but the professor sets an even lower example by being egotistic. If he comes from a place of caring and wants to send the student a wake-up call, there are many ways to do it besides this slap in the face email. The student’s email was respectful and straightforward, which I appreciate and which shows she has enough humility and respect to learn from her mistake. However, the professor, especially in his position, needs to acquire or re-acquire these qualities.

  7. Yes, I agree with you Steve. The professor’s response doesn’t set a good example. If the intention is to tell the student to demonstrate a level of humility, the professor doesn’t set a good example of that himself. The student may have been self-absorbed, but the professor sets an even lower example by being egotistic. If he comes from a place of caring and wants to send the student a wake-up call, there are many ways to do it besides this slap in the face email. The student’s email was respectful and straightforward, which I appreciate and which shows she has enough humility and respect to learn from her mistake. However, the professor, especially in his position, needs to acquire or re-acquire these qualities.

    1. Pointing out someone’s ego is NOT being egotistical. If the professor has said, “Even if this was your first class, I am the great prof. so and so – I’m a master in my field and my time is never to be wasted!” but the professor DIDN’T.

      The professor pointed out the student’s initial rudeness. The student interrupted no classes four times with his coming and going-mid-class (leaving early for the first class, arriving late AND leaving early for the second, and arriving late to the third). He is interrupting HUNDREDS of people. And then he has the utter gall to say his feelings were hurt by this?

      The professor did not put on a display of ego – the professor simply informed the student of proper and COMMON etiquette, which is not rude. If you see someone pull down their pants and squat in the middle of a restaurant, the manager is not “inflating their own ego” by asking that patron to please use the restroom for that kind of business. What this student was doing was the academic equivalent of shitting in the middle of a restaurant.

      1. I’m sorry, but I would guess if the student’s plan was to sample three classes in the evening, I doubt it would be in a way that interrupted “HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE.” Thinking ahead it would have been prudent to let the teachers involved know, but I think the only thing that got interrupted was the professor’s self-importance.

    2. I really hate this idea that everything has to be caring to be heard. Get over it. You will have an asshole boss. That doesn’t make him wrong – in fact, in this case, he’s pretty dead on. Also, this guy was an MBA candidate, not a 19 year old undergrad. If you don’t have it together enough to know that walking into class an hour late is not acceptable by then, then you have missed some major life skills. You wouldn’t do it on your first day at work, why would you do it for the first day of class – especially at a business school, and one with a pretty great name in business schools. This professor has actually done nothing wrong. There was no discrimination here, no comment of something that cannot be helped, but rather he pointed out incredibly unacceptable behavior – and again, I go back to my first point, he doesn’t have to be polite to do it – that’s not his job. I think the fact he bothered to write back at all says something about his teaching ethic. So, like his style or not, all I can say is good job dude! Thank you for actually saying something to people who need the wake-up call.

      1. University Professor with Integrity!

        juliatbwa = LIKE! :)

      2. Amen, sister. This prof’s terseness is nothing compared to what this student is going to get upon entry into Real Life.

  8. You might want to fix your article. You said the prof told “her” to come back the next class, but the prof. clearly indicates the writer was a guy.

    1. This is absolutely true and I was just going to make a note of it. Please explain the misgendering.

  9. As a recent (ish) grad from even a undergrad level, I have to agree with the professor. Even when shopping classes, being aware of other people, fellow students or professors, is a must – it’s not just NYU that has strict attendance policies, and even dropping a note to inform the professor that they were shopping (or even all three?) and might either leave early or arrive late, would have gone a long way towards showing even a little respect and awareness for how their behavior and choices would disrupt the class. As someone who has experienced this action from fellow students, and as someone who has shopped in a far more respective manner, I applaud a teacher who asks a student to leave when they show up out of the blue an hour into class like the only person in the class who matters is them. Shop respectfully make good choices.

  10. I can see where the prof. is coming from and he does make a fair point, it is rude to get up in the middle of class or arrive late and disrupt a whole class full of students – I’m in uni and it also annoys me when ppl arrives more than 30 mins late. Regardless, I must say this email was rather unnecessary and over the top, the student’s email was rather neutral and he was just making a opinion. Meanwhile the teacher’s email sounded egotistic, snotty and forwarding it to the entire class was just plain childish and extremely unprofessional. Just for argument’s sake, if this student had insisted on picking a class without going around ‘class shopping’ wouldn’t it have been even more problematic for the uni’s administration to have to arrange to change him to another class when he decides he doesn’t like the class he signed up for?

    1. If you can’t even write out “people,” don’t expect to make a splash once you get out of “uni” (that’s university or college, by the way.) People like you are the first applicants I toss out. Can’t speak English, just text? Gone. Self-entitlement during the interview? Gone.

      Have fun living in your mother’s basement. Looks like it’s your first stop right after “uni.”

      Let me translate. LOL ppl wont chill bcuz u cant b free in th rl world, rite? Ut-ohs! 2 baddd! MayB mummy n daddy pay 4 moar skool tho!

  11. I’ve taught at the university level and do sympathize with the professor somewhat….But why is there a course shopping period at the beginning of the semester if a student taking advantage of it is going to be kicked out of class and sent a childish email when s/he attempts to clarify the situation? I think that the student’s tone could have been more respectful, and the student should have thought to email the professor(s) in advance about the fact that s/he was undecided between courses taking place during the same time slot – plus, three is overkill; two conflicting courses would be a little more understandable. All that said, the professor’s response strikes me as more obnoxious than the student’s intent of sampling three classes.

    1. A student took time to passive-aggressively (let’s call it what it is) send an email chastising the Professor. The Professor then sent a direct response essentially calling said student out on their passive-aggressive response. I see no problem with this. What I’m more shocked by is the number of people posting here who also seem to think that this kind of behavior (by the student) is okay.

      It’s shocking, really.

      It may very well have been this student’s first ever “kick in the pants.”

      I applaud Prof. Galloway

  12. So many folks have been fooled into some righteous belief in entitlement that they devalue their profs as a mere means to an end. Thus, although in today’s overly politically correct environment which is just solidfying Aldus Huxley’s view in “Brave New World” of an overly materialistic and uncreative or irresponsible world Dr. Galloway can be judged as being indiscreet: the fact is the student was wrong. The price of an education has become more important than the quality of one’s education. If you’re getting an MBA you should be ready to swim with the big boys or as the Greeks say “the big fish eat the little fish.” Do your research before the semester, plan your timetable, it isn’t like a micro-brewery where you can get a little taste before deciding on a pint.

  13. This professor is dead on!

  14. First, it’s a safe bet this professor has tenure. :)

    Anyway, I would not have cced the entire class or even another faculty member, but other than that I find the professor’s response a good one.

    Here’s the important thing to remember, he’s teaching a lesson, and to someone who is not even one of his students! Most would never have even responded. This guy took the time to not only respond but to try and teach the student something that transcends just base syllabus and rote memorization. Remember when that used to be the norm? Sadly today, it’s not. He should be commended.

    Prior to college the majority of this student’s educational life likely involved inflating his self esteem, accommodating his individual wants and needs, and a lack of training and experience in the ramifications of actions. That is not a proper education for adult life, one which involves entering the job force and becoming a productive member of society. Somehow, somewhere, this student needs to learn all that. College better be where, or else he’ll have a tough road ahead after college.

    As for those who fail to see anything wrong with the student’s behavior or his email, I really don’t know how to respond to you.

  15. deliveratormatt | Reply

    It really depends on if “Shopping Period” is the norm at NYU – Stern, as it was at Brown where I did my undergrad. For the first week of classes, this kind of thing was pretty normal and just part of the culture.

  16. Context is everything here — is there an acknowledged “shopping period,” and… how did the student enter the classroom? In many of my classes, a student can enter and leave at the back of the room, quietly, almost without my noticing. Apparently this student’s entrance really attracted the professor’s attention, perhaps interrupted his train of thought, etc. I have a student who entered late at the front, walked in front of the entire class, and rather noisily and obtrusively situated herself and her belongings. She got a talking-to, though not in front of everyone. Giving a student a dressing-down in front of an audience is shaming, and for me, that is not acceptable. Under any circumstance, but particularly when you have no idea about the student’s circumstance. So sending the e-mail around to everyone was crass. And making the student leave was a little imperious, too. I would have taken the student aside at the conclusion of class and asked for a chat. “Hey, it is my policy that people be on time. ‘Shopping’ is not an excuse in my book. Further, if you have to leave or enter late, you must be unobtrusive.” Or something to that effect. The student’s e-mail (which was polite, though did not acknowledge sufficiently the professor’s position), should have received a much more measured response. Mutual respect is the object, from my point of view.

    1. I agree that context is everything. Student was either willfully oblivious or just woefully misinformed. He/she/it should’ve done a little background inquiry (from friends, fellow students, academic counselors) to find out whether “class shopping” was the norm first week of class. At the same time, these days most professors send out an email of the syllabus to everyone on their list before the first day of class (so they can buy their books ASAP) which should illustrate the zero tolerance for tardiness policy. Miscommunication all around. The prof had no obligation to let the student join the class, but still shouldn’t have CC’ed everybody, and not used quite such a snarky and vindictive tone.

    2. Agreed. I don’t think that the prof’s response is totally over-the-top, but I don’t think his decision to forward it to the entire class, even with names removed, was entirely appropriate. I also agree that a talking-to for a first offense (on the first day of class) would’ve probably been a much better response than simple dismissal.

      1. Are you kidding? If you are an hour late to my class you really don’t want to be there in the first place.

      2. If you’re an hour late to come to my business, you’re fired. If you complain to me about me not being fair in firing you (presuming here your kid isn’t dead or in the hospital, no family is in jail, dying or dead, the employee is not dying or dead, and that if any of those are what’s going on, your phone exploded before you could call me) I’ll send you a sound clip of me laughing hysterically. I think the Professor was far more kind than any employer would ever be. Furthermore, I’d not only forward that kid’s email to any potential employer (so they could avoid the risk of taking that person on,) I’d probably also forward the clip of me laughing. I guess the real world just “isn’t fair.” Except it is – everyone is easily replaceable. Lots of people need jobs, and a better and more honest employee is better than one who complains that there are consequences for being late. The best way to get and keep a job is to show up on time, do your job as you’re supposed to, and not send whiney rude letters when you don’t get your way. I’m a Gen-Xer, just barely, almost too young. Sad how fast things change and how irresponsible the generation right after me seems to be. olds.

  17. Reblogged this on Over the Top.com and commented:
    I do not feel sympathy for this student. The email was rude and the was another way of writing “the apology” letter.

  18. Reblogged this on Summer Solstice Musings and commented:
    Unbelievable how young people tend to feel so entitled. In which universe it is OK to be bothered to the point of emailing the professor because he/she rightly so kicks you out of his/her class due to you being ONE HOUR late?

    Young people. Get your shit together and learn some manners while you are at it. The world doesn’t owe you anything.

    1. It’s not “young people.” It’s rich, self-absorbed, spoiled young people.

      1. I disagree completely. I’ve taught at both at-risk schools and very privileged private schools. The sense of entitlement is near universal.

      2. Regardless, please don’t generalize. I’m barely 20 and I’d never dream of being so rude as this student was, and my friends would neither.

  19. In all my years in college (not that I’m proud of how long its been) I’ve always been incredibly surprised when I see things like this happen every semester and the student in question always reacts the same (“that’s not fair,” “I didn’t know,” etc). And I always wish I could ask the student where the hell they were at before college? I have to assume that on average most high schools/middle schools/elementary schools frown on tardiness so somewhere in their educational journey they must have picked up that showing up half an hour to an hour late was a bad idea. I applaud this professor for being kind enough to not just give an inscription of a middle finger to the student and actually offer some important advice. I truly hope for the sake of the student that they heed this information.

  20. There is no lesson here for most of us. The student is not spoiled (NOR YOUNG)- she/hi is already in the work force and was sampling classes first day. Lets remember that the student has forked out $40,000/year of probably their own money so its valid strategy. In a company if you make a protocol mistake, you don’t get bashed. You get feedback and then if you make the same mistake again you get fired. The student was coming out of the corporate world to an MBA program. Also this is no normal professor (NOR OLD). This is Prof. Galloway who has a salary of 400K and other income streams well over a million dollars a year from companies he started in his early 20′s. He himself is from the complain over every little thing generation – with a hyperactive ego. By stepping into Stern and becoming a celebrity professor he must understand that his students already are hardworking and have their shit together. Its obvious from his reaction that something is eating at him. He’s not teaching raw and unfocused undergraduates – he’s teaching the best of the best. The email was way out of line – Im sure the student just brushed it off. There is no lesson here except when you rub someone the wrong way to ignore it and don’t get emotional.

    1. So, I’m curious. What else is a student entitled to when they have “forked out $40,000/year of “probably” their own money”? Do they get to bring a microwave to class and warm up some coffee when they need it? Maybe a hot sandwich in the middle of lecture? Sounds delightful. Class can go long, do ordering a pizza to be delivered, that’s ok, right? Oh, sorry, this is my buddy calling, anyone mind if I take this call in the middle of class? Sweet. DUDE WHAT IS UP, MAN!!!! WE DRINKING LATER OR WHAT???? WOOOOOO!!!!!!

      I mean, this is $40,000 a year I’m spending to sit in this seat, so it’s my expectation that the professor allows me various concessions. Right? Also: “Well, Dr. Galloway is famous and well paid, so he shouldn’t be sending people emails like this.” Really?

      It is clear to anyone seeing this entire situation objectively, that the email wasn’t out of line at all. He smacked down an idiot student who clearly was brought up believing that he can do no wrong, and who doesn’t understand or respect authority of any kind. The email to Dr. Galloway was so condescending and ignorant, and Dr, G responded with, what was meant to be life lesson, a lesson that couldn’t be any more clear. “You break the rules, expect repercussions.” It’s that simple. Clearly, this dolt never took a second to consider the repercussions of their actions, because they are used to people bending over backwards for them.

      It was good to see this Professor not taking any crap.

      1. Very well spoken.

    2. And what of the other students who have also paid the $40,000 to be in class and have to deal with being interrupted by this person? Don’t they have a right to be in a class and get the experience that they paid for, without someone being rude and disrupting?

  21. No bursting into showtunes in class? What a dick!

  22. I agree with the higher standard this professor holds his students to. If this student wanted to sample a few classes, he or she should have emailed the professors of each class ahead of time to see if it was ok to leave early/enter late. Just assuming it is ok to disrupt a class in that manner, especially as a grad student, is rude. If the student would have apologized and explained why they were late, etc.–I believe they would’ve received a quite different response.

    1. So you think the student should just eat up more of the other student’s time by apologizing and explaining? Ha, I would rather the person just shut up, sit down and say nothing to maximize the benefit I’m getting.

      The professor is right to have standards, but also full of himself. What’s the old saying about casting stones? Right. One thing to respond directly to the student, another to send it to the whole class. One day, one of those students will see the Professor do something stupid. When they pull out their iphone or gadget to record it and upload it, the professor will be furious, but s/he asked for it.

  23. I wish there were more parents like this out there.

  24. What strikes me about this is the professors’ arrogance. He “xxxx’d” out the student’s name and emails it to entire class?!?! Oh, how anonymous of him! I wonder who this person could be– could it be the girl who came to class an hour late the first day and was publicly told to leave? What a jerk, and his immaturity (you know he is just brimming ear to ear knowing that everyone of his captive audience was clucking about how badass he was in this email) undercuts his entire message. Maybe it’s Professor Galloway that needs to learn a thing or two about respecting an institution and demonstrating humility!

  25. I’m in the minority here but for what these students pay, they have rights too. As the customers if they determine sampling is the best way to make a decision that doesn’t cost you thousands of dollars in mistakes, the professor needs to shut up and teach.

    1. If you are at the MBA level, you shouldn’t need your hand held by a professor. You should be a self-starter, able to take the material given, absorb it, and be able to apply it in a variety of applications. “Well, I was shopping professors”. Frankly, that is undergrad frosh garbage, All of the professors will be using the same department vetted exam, so their teaching styles should be a secondary concern at that point in your educational career. If you are shopping around, you’re merely trying to find which of the professors will be easiest.

      And since you’re trying to skate, what reason does this professor have to humor you?

      I’m sure that many will disagree with this point, but frankly, those that do are the types of people who need their hands held through everything and need every concept exhaustively explained to them. Those of us who don’t need training wheels

    2. By this logic, if I pay $10 for a movie ticket (or whatever it costs these days), I can go from one theater to the next to help me decide which movie to watch, right? And if the theater manager throws me out, I should email him/her to complain because that’s a policy I didn’t know in advance.

      Students are not customers in a traditional sense. Education is not a business transaction (even when the education is about business…). Viewing education through the lens of a customer/salesman relationship demeans the entire process. Paying your tuition money entitles you to nothing except the opportunity to learn. It does not mean that you have the privilege of attending and disrupting three classes for which you are not registered.

      1. Agree with Edik!

      2. Wait, what? Of course this is a business transaction. An item of value (money) is exchanged for a good or service. The tuition money entitles you to whatever agreed upon service or good is described when you pay the tuition. Often it includes a series of items such as venue, instruction, and even health services in some cases. Be careful to make such broad presumptions.

        Your analogy is wrong. You bought a movie ticket to one specific movie. You pay tuition to sign up for a choice of classes. There is a distinct difference. It would be more like you bought a movie pass enabling you to see as many movies as you wished and you got up after 10 minutes from each movie. Would you be rude to other patrons? Yes, you would. But would you comply with the contractual obligations? In theory, yes you would.

        This student’s problem is a sense of entitlement to try to guilt-trip the professor. The professor’s problem is an ivory tower ego necessitating sending it to every student. The professor’s job is to provide instruction (albeit tenue seems to get in the way of that sometimes) on an agreed upon subject matter. His choice to proffer life advice is likely beyond that scope.

        Summarily, the student is an idiot and the professor is a pompous ass. Neither are incorrect.

      3. “You pay tuition to sign up for a choice of classes. There is a distinct difference.”

        Actually, no. NYU, like many (most? all?) graduate programs charges tuition on a per-credit basis. What that means is that you add a class to your schedule, you get a bill for those credits. As this student was shopping for classes, that means one of two things:
        1) he/she has not actually registered for any class during that time, and is walking in and out for free, or
        2) he/she is registered for ONE of the three classes, and is visiting two others (most schools won’t allow you to register for simultaneous classes without the instructor’s permission, which obviously, this student did not have)

        So, if #1 is true, then you’re right — my movie theater analogy doesn’t add up. It would be more like walking into the theater without ANY ticket, watching 20 minutes of 3 movies, and then deciding if I wanted to pay to watch the rest of one of them.

        If #2 is true, then my movie theater analogy is spot on.

        “The tuition money entitles you to whatever agreed upon service or good is described when you pay the tuition.”

        The tuition money, since it is tied to a specific class, entitles you to attend the class under the criteria stipulated by the instructor of the class (usually in written form, in a syllabus). Again, to go back to the movie house, if I buy a ticket to a movie, go and sit in the movie and talk on my cell phone through the whole thing, I can’t pretend to be surprised if I get thrown out (or asked to put my phone away), because that is probably one of the policies of the theater. Paying the money doesn’t buy you the right to do whatever the hell you want.

    3. I agree that NYU students pay WAY too much, and deserve certain rights, but I think the point is more that the professor is actually doing this student a massive favor by instilling (teaching, even) a very important lesson of responsibility and, as he says, humility. At NYU, the worst that happens if you rudely come in to a meeting late with no good excuse (shopping for classes doesn’t mean running in and out of them) is a professor yells at you and you feel slightly silly and embarrassed because you’re paying top dollar to be yelled at. Once this student exits Stern, and if he or she gets a job, the worse that can happen is they get fired and find it near impossible to get other employment (especially in this job market). Way better for that student to learn this lesson now in safe’ish environment. Paying high tuition (which, again, is a huge problem) doesn’t mean you should be able to do whatever you want — students would be poorly prepared for professional lives if this were true.

  26. seriously…this is what is wrong with young people today. they have no sense of manners or responsibility or tact. this student should have just kept her trap shut instead of blabbering like a self entitled idiot.

    1. Agreed entirely on the manners of the student, but I have also never found public shaming to be an appropriate venue to vent personal frustrations. I genuinely believe one is entitled (and stupid) and the other pompous.

    2. I agree with TFan. I also want to clarify that 1) the student was actually male, not female (Professor Galloway’s email evidences this; I’m not sure why the author misgendered the student) and 2) young people today aren’t all the same; none of my college friends would ever dream of doing what this student did.

  27. You’re in an MBA program and you’re “shopping” for courses? Yes, the professor is correct — dear student, get your s!#t together. If you need to shop for classes, here’s how you do it: email or call the professor a week or two before the class starts, and see if he/she is willing to share the syllabus with you. But be careful how you approach it, because we ALL know that “shopping” for courses means “looking for the easiest/least-work-intensive/etc. option.”

    I can’t imagine missing the first class of a graduate-level class, let alone disrupting three of them in one night. And then to top it off, the student has the nerve to email the professor to give his/her “opinion,” as if it actually mattered?

  28. I’m a university professor, and I think that this NYU prof is out of line. It’s up to students how to best manage their time and education. If they want to miss class or show up late, that’s their decision. If they know the material, it’s clear when they take the final exam. In this case, the student actually had a good reason to miss class, since he was trying to decide which class to take. The prof is a jerk.

    1. Students can make their own decisions, but they need to accept the consequences of them. In this case, the consequence was not to be allowed to attend the class — appropriate, since a consequence of one student choosing to be late was to disrupt all the other students in the course. The student doesn’t apologize for the disruption; instead, s/he decides to stomp his/her foot about the “unfairness” of it all, as if the notion of “being on time” is entirely foreign. That sort of self-centered position something one would expect from a child, but not an MBA student.

      You might be comfortable permitting students to waste the time of those who chose to value their education and show up on time for class; this professor is not. And more power to him.

    2. The student certainly did not have a good reason to interrupt a class one hour in.

      1. I especially like the part where the student suggests that his/her tardiness is MORE acceptable, because he/she was an hour late, not just ten minutes. There’s some sound logic for you…

  29. The professor could have simply stated his adherence to the late rule that they have. It would have been professional and better met. There was no need to give the student ‘life advice’.

    It just seems like the prof is stroking his ego and is using the guise of intelligent articulation to bash on this student. The ‘life advice’ he is giving just seems to be the scape-goat for his abuse.

    And really, the student was not that rude or disrespectful in his/her e-mail. There was no cynicism or bad nature in that tone of the e-mail. I can’t say the same for the professor.

    1. Of course the student wasn’t rude. She was a female trying to sound all “sweet” to the professor, so he would coddle to her needs.

      1. I thought we already established that the student was male. Keep your gendered, narrow interpretations to yourself, man.

      2. The student was a man. Sorry, “male.”

      3. also ‘coddle to her needs’? amazing

  30. A tenured professor (Assoc., Full) can say this, and he is speaking the truth. Although, he should have MET in person with the student rather than posted an email. His message is right but his method was not the best.
    An un-tenured professor (Assistant, Adjunct, Lecturer) can NO LONGER say things like this. The Asst. Professor, out for tenure, must coddle and go all out to make life easy for students. This helps ensure the professor’s student evaluations are good and does not disrupt the tenure process. Sadly, clueless students doing class sampling, fall through the cracks, until they have a cold bucket of reality thrown on them. Often in their first job. Too late!
    This professor did the dope a favor and probably everyone in the class too (who also got the message). Be serious, which means doing your research BEFORE you go to the first class. Otherwise, just stay away and don’t disrupt the first class.

  31. John Schneider | Reply

    I was a college professor for 35 years. I might have written something like what Prof. Galloway wrote when I was in my thirties and still full of my own sh*t. Under the circumstances (as described above–MBA program etc.) I think he set a poor business model by *creating” a problem via confrontation unnecessarily where there was none. To compare what the student did with urinating and so forth is rude and self-centered in its own right. (I say this in full agreement with those who finger the problem of rude behavior in classes, especially undergrad. classes, which can be all too like what I used to associate with junior high schools.)

  32. My class is not for shopping. You want to “shop,” call on me during office hours and chat before class. Email and ask for a copy of my syllabus. Read the course description in the catalog or on my website. Don’t interrupt my class an hour late and act like it’s my fault. “(1) there is no way I could have been aware of your policy.” Not only do you not apologize for your interruption, you have the audacity to “provide my opinion on the matter.” You’re not my student. You didn’t care enough to show up on time. You failed to invest in the class by emailing me or request a syllabus, and you have the gall to provide your opinion? You’re damn right I’m going to publicly shame you, you self-righteous twit.

    And for anyone criticizing the professor for being immature or too mean, you’re part of the problem. It’s your coddling and lack of respect that allows this student to be a raging d-bag. Good lord.

    1. Professor Muffkateer presume? Regardless, if what you’re teaching is some bullshit business course, I’m not buying that someone stepping in, or out of your class suddenly ruins the experience for everyone, especially on the first day of class. Don’t project your self-importance into the activities of a classroom, and don’t lecture anyone else about manners and humility when given thoughtful feedback. “My class is not for shopping.” No shit, cause apparently it’s to boost your overly large ego about the insight you’re providing. And frankly, I wouldn’t want to shop, let alone have any association with the shit show of your “business” knowledge if what you’re offering is how to run an online gift store or flim-flam branding/research companies. Let’s hope Stern recognizes the snake oil salesman you seem to be and hustles you out for interrupting people getting an education.

      P.S. Love the dress. Hope you win! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_dressed_to_kilt/html/1.stm

      1. It’s not about “ruining the learning experience,” it’s about RESPECT. This professor has already been through school, and deserves to be respected by his students, and interrupting class by walking in an hour late is highly disrespectful.

        But what can you expect this day in time? People think they have the right to blatantly disrespect someone, but don’t you DARE retaliate if you’re the person being disrespected.

      2. Apparently Stern has a period of shopping classes. Maybe it’s not usual to experience three classes in an evening, but the class meets only once a week and the shopping period is what, two weeks at most? Really the fault is Stern’s. If the school has a shopping period, they need to have some guidelines that accompany if it ties in with their tardiness policy. That said though, the kid was nothing less than respectful, presumptuous but respectful, and I don’t get the impression from either the initial email or the response him showing up late was really the issue but more the fuss Galloway made to refused him entry. I’ve had my fill of holier than though professors who demand undue respect simply because I have no choice but them as the teacher of any particular subject (in music no less where egos often rule over teaching talent). The kid is lucky though to not deal with Galloway nor waste his time on “brand strategy.”

      3. The very idea of a ‘shopping’ period is ludicrous. Either take the damn class or not. I’m appalled that students now need to see a syllabus prior to registering for a course – as if they are in any position to adequately judge the worth or quality of that class. What they are truly doing is seeing which one offers the lighter load – affording the more free ‘me’ time to do as they damn well please. This new generation of college student is virtually worthless.

      4. Locally nameless

        “I’m appalled that students now need to see a syllabus prior to registering for a course – as if they are in any position to adequately judge the worth or quality of that class.”

        And I suppose, since students clearly qualified to make decisions about what they’re interested in learning, we should just do away with elective courses.

      5. I don’t get why many here are so quick to say that NYU has a “shopping period.” If this were true — which I sincerely doubt — then certainly there would have been 5 other students showing up late to this class, too. My guess is that perhaps there is a trend among students at NYU to do this, but that doesn’t mean that the faculty have to allow it. Yes, one student walking in an hour late doesn’t destroy the whole class. But if you allow it, then having students walking in and out of classes at will certainly could. Also, the student walking in is likely going to have no idea what is going on, which often results in asking questions that were covered 45 minutes ago. While you might think that the first day of class is reserved for going over the syllabus, the fact that class was still going on an hour after it began indicates that this professor actually wanted to get to real content on day one. Gasp!

  33. If the prof really objected to the interruption in his perfectly calibrated lecture, he shows it in a funny way by making a point of kicking the student out, which was far more disruptive than simply letting her sit down and then speaking to her one-on-one afterwards. He was trying to make a point and he did it, but at the same time he showed a sense of entitlement that he should be ashamed of. As to the student’s behavior, when I was an undergraduate at an Ivy League school in the ’60s, we always sampled lecture classes the first week — what’s the big deal? I’m an English professor now, and I would have no trouble with anyone attending part of my first class in a lecture course (as opposed to a seminar). This prof has a problem.

    1. I don’t attend NYU, so I legitimately don’t know the answer to this question: does NYU officially designate the first week of classes as a “shopping” week? If it doesn’t, the professor probably didn’t assume that that’s why the student was late.

      In any case, the “shopping” student should plan to attend a full class period of each of the classes he/she is considering so as to judge them on the same criteria, compare syllabi, etc. There’s usually an add/drop period during the first week of classes, but to me that’s more of a safety valve than a shopping period (i.e., a way for a student to change his/her mind about a class as opposed to a way to make a decision).

      I’m not a professor, but as far as the lecture goes if it were an “Intro to ___” course and the student were a freshman or a sophomore I would think that the professor was out of line; however, the student is a 2010 MBA candidate—a graduate student. This student has successfully (on some level) been to college before and should be aware of NYU’s codes of conduct. There’s a lot of entitlement on both sides.

  34. I live in the East Village — or what used to be called the East Village and now is increasingly becoming NYU Campus East. I wish this professor, that student, and every spoiled punk and elitist teacher from that place would just get over themselves entirely. And, hasn’t it pretty much been shown in recent years that acquiring an MBA is no guarantee of business success — and, in many cases, the rigorous memorization of useless shit some professor deems worthy might actually make one less suited to being an entreprenurial leader?

  35. There is a great deal of wisdom in this professor’s response! I was a professor for 25 years.

    Dave

  36. I can obviously understand how it was rude for the student to enter the classroom an hour late on the first day of class. But as previous posts have said, the student wanted to see which class was the best fit. And that does not necessarily mean what teacher seems the easiest and will give you an A. I don’t think one can foresee that on the first day. It’s a difficult situation all around. The student feels obligated to view three different classes. The professor most likely has a huge ego, and thoroughly enjoyed replying back to the student. Anyways I understand from a student’s viewpoint. If I’m paying $60,000 a year to go to NYU then I want a class that interests me, but also an interesting and energetic professor. I can’t even count the number of times that I have had dull, uninteresting, monotone professors at NYU. That is precisely why I can understand attending three different classes IF that was the student’s reasoning.

    1. If the student were that invested in the quality of his/her class experience, s/he could have emailed the professors whose classes s/he planned to shop in advance, and either scheduled when s/he could attend or met with the profs in advance. Not hard.

    2. If you’re paying $60,000 a year, then I think you can put in a bit more effort to research the courses and the faculty than trying to speed date them to see which fits best.

      Also, to TRULY understand from a student’s point of view would be to take into account all the other students who are also paying $60,000 a year whose class times were interrupted by this one student.

    3. I agree that shopping doesn’t necessarily correlate to finding the easiest class, but the way the student went about shopping leaves much to be desired. This student isn’t a college freshmen, but an MBA student. As part of the advanced planning the student did to decide which three classes to shop, did the student not stop for one second and think, “hmm…I should probably email the professors for these classes and tell them of my intention to attend a portion of all three on the first night.” The entire situation could have been solved with a simple email (or phone call in advance), but instead the student decided to assume no one would mind.

  37. “party jerkface”
    Does no one edit anymore?

    1. This.

    2. Thank you!! It must be some sort of hipster irony to write a blog about entitlement and getting your sh*t together for the sake of professionalism and then have a bolded typo in the second sentence?

  38. This professor is clearly a psychopath. Who uses someone’s name that many times in an e-mail?

    1. LFMAO

  39. That’s bullshit. It’s a shopping period for classes. That’s how shopping period works.

    1. Shopping periods work by walking into whatever class you want? Not when I went to college.

    2. Where in this article does it state that NYU-Stern has a shopping period for MBA courses? Not every university has a shopping period. None of the three I attended did. Regardless, the shopping isn’t the issue, but rather the assumptions made by the student and the reaction of the student to having his/her assumptions challenged.

  40. I think its BS. Unless the students entry significantly disrupted class (other than the professor stopping class to reprimand the student) there is absolutely no reason to have a policy like this. The student pays A LOT of money to attend the school. The student is the customer here. If they’re late, its their choice and will almost certainly cause them to not do well in the class. Honestly (and I know this may be a bit unprofessional of me) but if I were that student, I would have found the professor later and told them off or completely ignored the professors request to leave in the first place. It may be a privilege to attend such a prestigious university but it is an earned and PAID FOR privilege and the professor should understand this.

    1. “A bit unprofessional”? No, more like fucking stupid. You paying tuition doesn’t entitle you to a “The customer’s always right” situation. Seriously? By that logic, you bought your car, so who are the police to tell you you’re breaking the rules? The next time they try, you’ll just tell them off, right?

      Right?

      Idiot.

    2. What about all the other “customers” that were in the “store”? They have no right to the educational experience they’re paying for?

      To further your logic, don’t stores have the right to refuse service, such as being a disruption or even failing to abide by a certain dress code (ie – jacket required for some restaurants, “no shoes no service”, etc)?

    3. Here, we have yet another individual who thinks that money gives him the right to do as he pleases. Rich kids sicken me.

  41. The only justification for the teacher’s behavior is that it’s disruptive to the class if someone comes in late. But was it really less disruptive to throw the student out? Coming in late is distracting for, what, 20 seconds? Throwing the student out not only probably took just as much time, but it probably took a few minutes for the students to put the incident out of their minds and get back into the mindset of the class material. Then he sends this email to everyone. All the professor cared about is his ego.

    1. First day. Set a tone or deal with it the rest of the semester.

    2. The professor isn’t responding to the student’s lateness. The professor’s email is in response to the student’s voicing of his/her opinion that it was unfair to be denied entry into the class. It’s the “But officer, I didn’t know it was against the law” situation. According to his email, upon the late arrival, the professor told the student that he/she would have to come to the next section of the class (an ENTIRELY legitimate request). It does not sound like the professor got bent out of shape about the student arriving late — the comments below are where the “ruining the educational experience for the other ‘customers’” bit started off. Student came in late, was refused entry, emailed the professor with what comes across as a falsely respectful message about the unfairness of being told to attend a different section, and the professor responded to that. A bit over the top? Yeah, probably. Did it get the point across? I suspect so.

  42. Nicole Johnson | Reply

    We pay $40,000 + a year… we can come into class late if we need to. It’s not like attending NYU is some free privilidge that we are so honored to have. WE PAY SO MUCH MONEY TO GO TO CLASS, and it’s just a class. So, if we need to walk in late for whatever personal reason, then LET IT BE. The teacher can then politely address the student about his or her tardiness and then the student can apologize and get it right next time. Without the students, there is no school. Better yet, without our money, pay checks aren’t issued. Professor Galloway has obviously gone mad, and professional conduct is so far out the window. We sure enough don’t pay tution for this kind of stuff. Nobody got time for that!!

    1. “Nobody got time for that!” And you attend NYU? You sound like a spoiled little brat who thinks that rules shouldn’t apply to you because your parents paid your tuition. Good luck in life, I think you’re going to need it.

      1. Nicole Johnson

        thanks.. I’m going to be alright.

      2. Nicole Johnson

        May I ask you Sigma…why you are so mad about this? I see you’ve commented on several posts calling people idiots and cursing.

    2. Are you freaking kidding me? So, the rules don’t apply to you because you “pay tuition”? What about those of us who have to rely on financial aid because neither us nor our parents can afford the cost of tuition? Do we have the same right to show up to class late? Of course not, because we’re not a bunch of rich kids flaunting mommy and daddy’s money who think there are no consequences for actions.

      1. thanks for your response. no need to be rude. I appreciate my education and I’ve learned to speak to people respectfully. Unfortunately, we have collectively (as everybody’s behavior is currently demonstrating including the student and the professor) forgotten how to speak to people that we don’t know. I’m sorry that you have the audacity to speak to me in the way you do without even knowing me. Have a great day. Same to you Spartan112 and Bluecat

      2. thank you for your response. no need to be rude.

    3. Arriving late is impolite, yet you expect the professor to be nothing but polite? The professor has a policy. He stuck to it. Good for him. Instead of apologizing for the interruption the student chose to justify their behavior and got an email full from the prof. I’ll bet they don’t do it again. Lesson learned.

      1. thanks for your response. no need to be rude.

      2. I was rude?

    4. I’m a former college professor who now works in the business world. If you were late for my class (small 25-30 students) I have to pause while you get seated and situated because your activity creates noise which disrupts my lecture. The class loses 5-10 minutes with a late entrance. That is why anyone more than 15 minutes late is marked absent and not allowed to enter the classroom. This is especially problematic when we had tests or quizzes. In the business world, our conference room door is locked 5 minutes after the scheduled meeting start time. Anyone more than 5 minutes late to a meeting is marked absent, regardless of excuse, even if it is 4:00 a.m. in your time zone and you had a flat tire while rushing your wife to the ER on the way to work, you were absent and unable to enter if you arrived at 4:06 a.m. The professor is giving the student a reality check on the real world. Do you really want to learn something for your $40,000.00? It is right there in the Professor’s letter. Don’t take anything for granted. Don’t act like you are entitled just because you are paying for it. Respect authority and the hierarchy of the system. Always check first (do the research). Mind your manners. And get your s**t together.

      1. thanks for your response. no need to be rude

      2. Fully agree. The argument that because I paid to be there and attend the university entitles me to show up to a class whenever I want is idiotic. Besides, if what you’re after is an education, it seems that that letter provides one hell of a lesson. I do agree however that decorum does go in both direction and found it tacky for the prof to CC the entire class in the correspondance (which to my understanding is what he did).

      3. My response is to Nicole Johnson, not to you, Anonymous. I hold nothing against your comment. I paid my own way through college, working two jobs and on scholarships.

      4. “Anyone more than 5 minutes late to a meeting is marked absent, regardless of excuse, even if it is 4:00 a.m. in your time zone and you had a flat tire while rushing your wife to the ER on the way to work, you were absent and unable to enter if you arrived at 4:06 a.m.”

        I am so incredibly glad I do not work for you. Life is too short to spend it working for bullies who fly off the handle and have no sense of proportionality, even around emergencies. What do you do if one of your employees needs to visit the restroom during a meeting while the door is locked? Make them raise their hand and request a hall pass?

    5. privilidge? NYU? I don’t buy it.

    6. privilidge

    7. “privilidge”? NYU? Oh dear. I’m not sure I buy it.

    8. Hi – as a graduate student and a teacher myself, I take issue with your statement.

      However, I do agree with one point you make – professional conduct IS important, and I do not believe that this professor acted professionally when he sent this to all of his students to prove a point, simply removing the name. There are ways for people to figure out who that student is, and that could be very damaging (see my post below for further reasoning).

      Still, the response to the student’s email is within his rights as a professor. What this student did was incredibly rude – no matter what he pays in tuition, this is disrespectful to the professor, his course preparation, and his teaching. Mind that the professor ALSO paid thousands of dollars and boundless amounts of time to have earned his job (most professors must attain their doctorate or be on their way to it in order to teach at the collegiate level – lots of tuition dollars being spent there). Just because we pay copious sums of money to go to school doesn’t mean that we should do whatever suits us at the moment. We are considered adults and held to higher expectations, as such. Please bear in mind that professional conduct does not apply solely to professors.

  43. I’m sorry, anyone who has spent a significant time applying for business school at least at the top schools should know that lecture is treated differently. Lecture for business school isn’t a 600 person science class you took Freshman year of undergrad where you mindlessly take notes.

    These are smaller, highly participative classes and the mean age is 26-29 (meaning folks who are more mature and responsible than when they were 19). I believe strict tardiness policies are quite common for most business school classes.

    I find it bizarre any student would think arriving an hour late is acceptable even when auditing courses is allowed.

  44. The professor has forgotten who he is working for…maybe he should enroll in a course on client relations. Agree with Chris that it’s far more disruptive to make a scene out of a student arriving into lecture late than simply letting them sit down. Heaven forbid any of his students ever needing to use the bathroom mid-lecture!!! Ridiculous.

    1. The Professor works for the school, not the student.

      1. And what are the major sources of revenue for a private school such as NYU that are used to pay the professors salary and benefits, genius? Tuition from current students and monetary gifts from alumni. I’m very sorry to have to spell it out for you.

    2. Not ridiculous. Right on target. If this kid were an hour late to my class, I wouldn’t have been so kind as to write her an e-mail. I would have eviscerated her in front of her peers before I sent her packing and out the door. She would have thought a long time before doing this again to some other professor – and worse – to all the other students whose educations were interrupted by her appalling hubris.

      1. Buddy, you need HELP.

      2. You sir, are a bully. I encourage you to check your hubris and focus on doing your job instead of dressing down everybody who bothers you.

    3. This is a prime misconception. The professors work for the school and that relationship is partly about the students and their tuition, but it’s also about the research, writing, and academic contribution a professor makes to the overall institution. They aren’t there to serve students like waitstaff where the customer is always right. To imply that someone who likely has studied to earn a PhD and managed to get tenure at a university works for the student is insulting to those who reached that level of academia. The student is paying to receive an education, network with professors and other students, and to get the benefit of being associated with the prestige of the institution. A graduate degree is like an apprenticeship in the discipline. Show up on time and learn the ropes. Regardless of what you’ve paid, you’re not just entitled to be there or there wouldn’t be an admissions process. The rigor of the environment adds to the value of the degree. Otherwise, you can take classes online in your pajamas from a school that advertises during Jerry Springer.

  45. [...] Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sh*t together” | Things Doanie Likes Personally, I thought the professor was insightful and spot-on. Reply With Quote [...]

  46. I can’t believe this student had the audacity to offer ‘feedback’ to the professor, in a situation where he was clearly at fault. Audacity and stupidity.

    If he/she was among the few who were actually seated in the class and taking it seriously, he/she would have taken offence at a presumptuous idiot who thinks he/she can walk into a class anytime and disturb the flow, without any respect for other people’s time AND money.

    I go to a business school, and pay almost three dollars per minute of lecture time. I don’t want to spend that money to listen to someone shuffle around and creating a ruckus, I’d rather listen to the prof or my classmates and learn something.

    Some people just need to be put in their place. Hopefully, he’ll learn from it, as will others.

  47. Since everyone else on this post has been called “sexist,” I might as well join the bandwagon. Honestly, if this were a male student, very few people would be taking his side. However, since he said “get your shit together” to an emotional female and hurt her precious little feelings, he now gets vilified for telling the truth.

    1. But the student is a male student. “You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop. ”

      His = male.

      1. To add: funnily enough, people are vilifying/treating the student as an emotional female when they criticise him. That is a kind of sexism, isn’t it?

    2. It’s interesting that no one who thought the student was male wrote, “Ugh, typical irresponsible, emotional man, male students sure do suck,” whereas lots of people who thought the student was female saw it as an opportunity to rail about “her” entire gender.

  48. Whatever it is that makes Professor Galloway feel the need to respond to this email, he really needn’t on xxxx’s account .

  49. Tell the prof you pay him to teach you and you can sample however many classes you want.

    1. Yeah, let me know how that works out for you when the prof fails you. Unless you name is somewhere on his check you don’t pay him.

  50. Shopping Period | Reply

    End of the day, it sure seems like it sucks to go to a school without a shopping period.

  51. Doanie, Great post. We plan on writing a blog piece on this subject at our test prep blog, http://toptestprep.com/blog Thanks again.

  52. Awesome response! Go Prof!! Perhaps the name of the school should have been taken a little more literally….STERN. ;)

    1. ba-dum-chhhh :)

  53. Sounds like a professor who teaches a useless class has a little too much self-importance.

  54. I believe that both the professor and student are at fault. The student for not emailing the professor beforehand to make sure it was alright for him or her to do this, and the professor for answering in such a way.

    As stated in many posts above, the student clearly was trying to defend him or herself and give an excuse to why he/she was late. However he/she was clearly in the fault for coming in an hour late regardless of the situation. He/she does not apologize in the email but only gives an explanation. Also, the student claims to be ignorant to the rule, but ignorance of a rule or law does not give exemption of it. I have read that the student was an MBA candidate, although I did not notice this myself, this means that the student has gone through at least 4 years of school at an accredited college or university therefore giving him or her at least some knowledge or insight into the standards of tardiness in a classroom.

    I believe that the professor was also rude in the response that he gives. It is true that it was only the first day of classes so what information could he really have that would have been so important other than the explaining of the class, subject, and or syllabus. Granted this does not give students an excuse to be so late. I also agree that the professor did not have to forward the email to every one else in the class. It was a childish thing for the professor to do. Instead he could have emailed the student back and left it at that, and perhaps in a less condescending but more conducive way.

  55. Uh, how about if shopping around for classes was the typical, “normal”, thing to do at the student’s undergrad or previous grad school? Both schools that I’ve had the luxury of attending, one an Ivy, ENCOURAGED students to do this. Honestly, the only thing I found disrespectful was the professor’s response! That just screams – ENTITLEMENT! “I am the Professor; whatever I say, goes. PERIOD.” In situations like these, I would go to the Dean of Students, like the Generation Y’er that I am, file a complaint, and share my experience with my fellow classmates, encouraging NOT to register for this class. (ARE YOU KIDDING ME – on top of paying $50k+ to attend, you have to deal with this kind of bs on your first day…)

    1. You are an idiot. And I, went to Oxford.

      1. LOL!! What an awesome response! LOL!

    2. “I am the Professor; whatever I say, goes. PERIOD.”
      But that’s how these student/professor relationships work. If you take a class, the professor agrees to give you the opportunity to demonstrate your understanding of relevant course material, and you agree to work within the structure that the professor has pre-determined for doing so. It’s not entitlement, as you say, it’s the nature of the interaction.

  56. Love this response. What person thinks it’s okay to just stroll into class an hour late, and then have the audacity to get upset about the professor not just accepting that? I mean really, three classes in one time slot. He was on point with his response.

  57. Ignoring the issues of possible rudeness, entitlement, etc., just by considering the logic exhibited by the student’s words: “it was more probable that my tardiness was due to my desire to sample different classes rather than sheer complacency.”, this student should not have been accepted into Stern’s MBA program.
    [To sample different classes is one possible explanation among a VERY large number of other (even more plausible) explanations, therefore the probability of guessing that his/her tardiness was due to the desire to sample classes is practically zero]

  58. It’s a good idea to sample multiple classes before committing to any of them, but its implementation was lacking. Anyone, who has ever given a lecture, knows, that interruptions are deadly, so I can relate to the Professor’s reaction.
    A better way of sampling different lectures might have been to go to each lecture for the full length. This even has the benefit of seeing if the respective prof makes it easy (possible) for one to get up to speed after a missed lecture.

    1. Why not contact the professors beforehand, as professor emails are able to be publicly found on most school websites? Or talk to people who took the class? There are other resources to be used, here.

    2. I’ve taught a ton of classes. I don’t think anyone notices if someone slips quitely into or out of the classroom, assuming, of course, that the lecture is interesting.

  59. [...] The rest of the article (including the letter from the student and the professor’s response) are found here.  [...]

  60. Sorry folks….I’m in with the Professor on this one. I love this response, and wish that all of academia were lock and step with this guy.

  61. In my experience, a professor who stops his class to chide a student who walks in late is almost always more distruptive than the student walking into class late. It speaks more to the professor’s sense of self-importance than the student’s rudeness (for the most part).

    That said, the student was an idiot for sending that email to the professor, and the prof. was equally dumb in sending his response to the whole class. As a student, I’m not interested in teachers who are looking to “send a message” to their students about respecting the class. IMO, this professor needs to get his sh!t together as much as the student.

  62. I can’t believe how many people in these comments seem to think that the student “had it coming.” I am graduating in a few weeks, and while I would not usually bother coming to class if I was going to be more than 15 minutes late, the first day of class is typically pretty messy as far as scheduling goes. There are students in the wrong classroom, students missing from the roster because they registered late, and students who come in late to class. I understand the professor’s frustrations, and likewise the frustrations of many of you who are educators or who were undergraduates many years ago. I also understand that NYU has a strict 15 minute policy, but I still just do not believe the professor was justified in his outrageously rude email. It would have been very easy to politely inform the student of the university’s policy and the professor’s right to adhere to it. All of the verbal bashing and cruel remarks implying that the student is an idiot is not going to teach the student anything except that professors hate students and they are not willing to communicate openly and respectfully. I think we need to re-evaluate who was the disrespectful one here.

  63. This is great. $50k tuition isn’t a price you pay to behave however you feel. It’s a privilege to attend college. Not a right. I agree with the professor. This student probably won’t do this again. And rightfully so. Nice work prof.

    1. its the first day of classes…. 50k gives me the right to make sure my investment is the right one by checking out which classes I like however I see fit.

      1. This professor proved you wrong.

      2. Yes, good luck with that. You can believe this, but don’t be surprised when it doesn’t work out for you.

      3. I think you’re forgetting that you ought to use that right responsibly – like the professor was saying.

  64. He publicly shamed her with that forward, taking a private correspondance without permission into a public one. This was a poor choice from someone in a position of power compared to someone with none. He is a very small man.

    1. Agreed on all accounts. I believe his actions and the manner of his response show more about his own personal problems than the obvious immaturity of the student.

    2. According to the Deadspin source, he might not have been the one to forward it to his class – his TA might have done it without his knowing.

  65. Much of the discussion in this thread has focused on the “rights” of the other students, mainly that they deserve the full attention of the professor and need not be disturbed by a tardy student. While this is true, given that all the students, including the tardy one, pay that teacher’s salary, I submit this question:

    Is it more or less disturbing (i.e. more of less of an infringement on their rights) to have a student quietly enter a class late and take a seat in the back, or to have a professor voluntarily stop his lecture, focus his sole attention on a single student, and derail whatever learning was going on in that lecture hall?

    Of course, from the information we are given, we have no way to know if (s)he was loud or obnoxious in his/her tardiness, but nevertheless, I find it disingenuous of Prof. Galloway to lecture this student on decorum, manners, and “all the basics” while obviously failing to have a grasp on them himself.

    Furthermore, it is very clear that, while hiding behind the facade of “slapping some sense” into this student, Galloway is egotistical, solipsistic, and arrogant.

    A. There was nothing to be gained, other than his own aggrandizement, from sending this email to the entire class (regardless of whether or not the student’s name was xxx-ed out)
    B. Look at his language: “You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop.” – Galloway is unnecessarily condescending, and takes a mocking tone.
    C. “your logic effectively means you cannot be held accountable for any code of conduct before taking a class” – If the student actually believed that, (s)he would not have taken the time to compose an email in the first place, nor would (s)he have left the class upon Galloway’s request.

    While it may be personally annoying to him that a student is tardy, this is a fundamentally different scenario than an employee being late to work, as others have suggested. In that situation, the employer pays the employee to provide a service that creates value for the company, and is commensurately compensated. However, in the situation between Galloway and the student, Galloway is the essentially the employee, and the student is the employer. After all, is it not the student’s tuition dollars that pay his salary? If this student chooses to be stupid and misuse the service for which (s)he is paying, then it is his/her prerogative, regardless of how ill advised it may be.

    1. A- Plenty was gained. It will be a long time before another student makes a “pit stop” in one of his classes.

      B- This student needed to be mocked after assuming that the prof should know (or care) that they were sampling classes.

      C- Who in their right mind would think showing up to a class one hour late would be ok?

      And no, the students dollars do not pay his tuition. The school does. He is not the employee of the student, education is not a service industry. The classroom is the realm of the teacher, students are guests (and hopefully participants). The instructor makes the rules.

      1. “education is not a service industry”
        YES. This.

  66. Had i blundered into finding myself on the recieving end of this email from professor galloway, my only responsive action would be to reply to the email “thank you for taking the time to reply to my email professor. Regards, xxxxx”

    1. However, i must say i disagree with the professors chioce to make this dialogue public. I believe that was in poor taste.

      1. Agreed, Joseph. That’s my big issue with this whole debacle. It is not professional, and simply taking out the name does not preserve anonymity.

  67. It’s business school. What do you expect? Takes no talent and no ability…

  68. The professor is just whiny and cranky because he doesn’t get paid as much and his students may go on to make more than him.

  69. I am a university professor, and my only criticism is this: had I chosen to write the email (and I probably wouldn’t have bothered to), I would not have copied the entire class. It was one student who needed the lesson, not the entire class. As to the situation itself, a few things need to be said.

    First, the student was entirely wrong. If they wanted to get more of an idea of the content of the class or the professor’s personality, they had a responsibility to approach each of the professors before the semester began and feel them out in person. Additionally, this was a graduate student, and a higher standard is expected of graduate students. If someone can’t cope with the higher expectations, drop out.

    Second, this whole deal about students being customers is, frankly, bullshit. You do not pay my salary. The university pays my salary. Some of you need to learn that not everything in life can be reduced to business terms. This is not a business. This is a school. I am not trying to sell you a product. You are not a customer. You are a student. I am trying to educate you. You are paying for an opportunity. You are paying for the opportunity to say, “I have x degree.” This does not guarantee that doors will open. It does guarantee that some doors will not automatically close. If you don’t like those terms, go flip burgers for a while and see if those terms don’t become dramatically more attractive. If this sounds arrogant, too bad. It’s not personal. It’s academic.

    Additionally, even if the comparison to business was valid, anyone with a speck of life experience knows that the customer is not always right. If you act inappropriately in virtually any business, you will be shown the door, because there are plenty of other customers who are willing to conform to proper behavior. I worked as a bookstore manager in a mall to help finance my education, and one time, a group of teenagers came into the store cursing loudly. There were younger kids and their parents in there. I asked the teenagers to tone down the language, and they immediately turned smartass. I threw them out of the store. They stood outside the store and yelled things. I called mall security, and they got banned from the mall. The other customers applauded it. Generally, in a business, you don’t get to act disruptive.

    Third, as a corollary to the second point: the classroom isn’t a student’s classroom, it’s my classroom. Students aren’t in charge, and they dictate nothing. I care very much about the success and welfare of my students, but I’m the one running the show. It’s my expertise, which I have earned, that you’re trying to tap into. A college professor may teach you about democracy, but we’re not here to practice it. You do have some choices. You can choose to not go to school. If you choose to go to school, if you work hard enough, you can choose your school. When you get into school, you can choose your major, your classes, and your professors. When you enter my classroom, however, the choices are mine. Don’t like that? Choose someone else. They will most likely offer you the same thing. Don’t like that? Choose another school. Or choose to flip burgers. Your only alternatives, frankly, besides a degree, learning a skilled trade (and I have a great deal of respect for electricians, plumbers, and mechanics, who have acquired expertise I don’t have), are doing an unskilled job, winning the lottery, or being born Paris Hilton. Best of luck with the latter two.

    My job is to disseminate the information that the syllabus says I’ll cover, and, to the best of my ability, present it in such a fashion that maximizes learning for the maximum number of students. Being interrupted by an idiot who’s “sampling” classes disrupts my ability to do that job. You think you’re special? If you’re my student, you are. But so are the rest of the students in the classroom, and you’re not more special than the rest of the class. When you interfere with their ability to learn, you are going to suffer some sort of consequence.

    Fourth, part of getting along in life involves knowing your role. If you’re an employee, you don’t sass the boss, or anyone above you. Until you make it to the top, you’d better show respect to the people in charge of you. It takes a long time for anyone to work their way to the top. I am not at the top. I defer to my department chair, my dean, the provost, any vice-presidents, or the president, and if they find fault with my teaching or my actions, I get my butt in line, because I’d rather keep my job than not. If you’re a student, you’re beneath me in the pecking order, and you’d better realize that. I will treat you with respect, but if you egregiously violate my rules, you are history. Like any reasonable boss or manager, I do not apply rules with zero tolerance. I am willing to make concessions for reasonable circumstances, because I am not a tyrant. But you need to know your role. This student obviously didn’t.

    I think anyone who defends the student is an idiot. I think anyone who defends the student on the basis of being a “customer” is an even bigger idiot. I think the prof took it a bit far. I probably would have just rolled my eyes over it, and laughed about what a dumbass the kid was with other faculty.

    1. That was blunt, blatant but brutally (and necessarily) honest. Never quite thought of school in those terms but I agree. What bothers me the most is the sense of entitlement that students have with regards to their education, seeing it as a right and not what it truly is – a privilege. By the time you’re in university, one would assume you’re an adult. It’s time to act like one, with all the inherent responsibilities within including showing up on time. Kudos.

    2. Virtually every person that has commented on the article has acknowledged (including myself), that the student acted poorly, lacked manners, and certainly has a high degree of immaturity. No one (or almost no one) is defending the actions of the student.

      Some, including myself, are merely condemning the professor for his unprofessional actions unbecoming of an educator, and his condescension.

      “this whole deal about students being customers is, frankly, bullshit. You do not pay my salary. The university pays my salary. Some of you need to learn that not everything in life can be reduced to business terms. This is not a business. This is a school. I am not trying to sell you a product.” – To be blunt, nearly everything contained in that statement is patently false.

      Schools are businesses, multi-million dollar businesses, at that. Education is a service, a service for which students (or their parents, or the government, or some combination of the three) pay. As a professor, the university hires you, and continues to pay you, on the basis that you fulfill your duty as a purveyor of information (or that you do research, which the university will publish and produce revenue from).

      This is an oversimplification, but the basic premise stands. However, I do agree, that by paying tuition, the student also agrees to what is contained in their student handbook, i.e. they must abide by certain set of rules, or else they will face consequences. Attending class on time may be one of them. Or it may not be.

      At many high level universities, including the one which I attended, it was entirely routine for students to show up on the first day, for the midterm, and for the final, and none of the classes in between. Many of those students were some of the most intelligent, well read, and high scoring students I ever had the pleasure of meeting.

      “It’s my expertise, which I have earned, that you’re trying to tap into.” – This is the exact attitude which Galloway displayed, and is exactly why many people have such a disdain for professors.

      No one invented money, power or knowledge. Especially you. You do not have a monopoly on information. Anything that you teach could be learned by an avid reader at a local library.

      Students pay you to facilitate their learning process, and hopefully, gain access to a piece of paper that will allow them to embark on successful careers. Your arrogance is an insult to all professors, and is an insult to any student you have ever taught.

      1. Gianni,
        I teach in the arts. Do you think you could pick up the knowledge I provide my students at the local library?

      2. Unfortunately, you’re very wrong on several counts. One of them is easy to rebut. There are comments on here defending the student. Simply read.

        The other requires a little more. Schools are not businesses. The most basic point of a business is to make money. The most basic point of a university is to educate, not to make money, and that inherently makes it NOT A BUSINESS. It takes infrastructure and people to carry out the mission of a university, and that’s what costs money. There are “for-profit universities.” For instance, the “University of Phoenix.” These “universities” are invariably poor at what they do because their primary motivation is profit, not education. Or do you think that the “University of Phoenix” is comparable with your alma mater?

        Comparing a university to a business just because it takes a lot of money to run is as invalid as comparing the military to a business because it takes a lot of money to run. You benefit from the military. You, however, are not the customer of the military, and you don’t get to walk onto a base and tell a Marine what to do simply because your tax dollars contribute to the military. You don’t pay a lieutenant’s salary, and s/he doesn’t answer to you. In the same sense, you are not the customer of a university, and you don’t get to walk onto a campus and dictate what goes on there, either.

        Additionally, tuition is not, in many cases, the main driver of a university’s finances. Federal funding, federal grant funding, state funding, and donations play major roles in funding universities. Therefore, students do not pay my salary. They certainly do not DIRECTLY pay my salary. The customer-business analogy could not be much more inapt. Or inept, for that matter.

        Your point regarding students’ attendance is irrelevant. If there was an attendance policy for the classes in question, those students would have attended, or failed. I don’t have an attendance policy in lecture because I don’t have to. They’re smart enough to know they can’t skip classes and do well in this one. I have an attendance policy in lab because my course is very high-demand, and the limiter is lab spaces. When I have to turn students away from class because I can’t fit them into lab, the ones who were lucky enough to get in had damn well better attend. Additionally, it is not a model for success in any classroom, and it is certainly not in mine. While I’m sure you enjoyed your time with these absentee students, and their intrinsic worth is certainly not dictated by their class attendance, I can guarantee you that there were certainly classes that they dared not miss.

        It IS my expertise that students are trying to tap into. Absolutely. It’s my knowledge of the material, which I’ve worked very hard to acquire, and my ability to communicate it in a reasonable and understandable fashion, which I’ve also worked very hard to acquire, that students are trying to benefit from. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking pride in how hard I’ve worked, and how good I’ve gotten at my job because of that. Would you get your hackles up at a mechanic who worked his ass off for years and became great at it, who said, “I’m a damn good mechanic because I’ve worked at it, and you want your car fixed right, you bring it to me”? If you do, then there’s something wrong with you, not the mechanic. Just because I teach, and I’m good at it, doesn’t mean I have to assume an air of false humility for everyone else.

        If anything I teach could easily be learned by avid readers, there would be no such profession as teaching. There would be only libraries. Really, what a stupid comment. Virtually everyone, in the course of reading for information, runs into something that they simply cannot understand on their own, and has to have someone explain it to them in a clear fashion, which is where teaching comes in. I’ve had many very intelligent students tell me that they couldn’t understand information out of their textbooks, but it all came clear because I knew how to use the right analogy, or used examples from outside the textbook. While you may be extraordinarily intelligent, and able to immediately and easily acquire any knowledge you read, that would make you a very rare exception. I am well aware that I do not have a monopoly on knowledge. I don’t just bring knowledge to the table. I bring experience, and I bring the ability to connect prior knowledge to new knowledge in an interactive fashion. You do not find all of those in a library.

        Every semester, I have a significant percentage of students ask if I teach other classes because I care very much about them as individuals as well as students, I work very hard at what I do, and I constantly strive to become better at what I do. I admit when I make mistakes (and every teacher does). I apologize for them, and I correct them, because the most important thing is the learning, not my ego. I invite questions. I am able to answer most of them. Some I can’t. When I can’t, I say it, and then go find the answer. I am very patient with my students. I will single students out for praise publicly. I criticize strictly in private, and when I do, I address the issue, not insult the student. My students know that I require them to conform to a certain standard of conduct, and they also know that I will respect them in public, and in private communications, and they know that I will work my hardest to provide a learning environment that is informative, safe, and interesting. I am not an insult to my profession, or my students. I am a credit to both, and I have teaching awards on my wall awarded by 2 different universities, but more importantly, I have teaching awards on my wall that were nominated and voted on by students to prove it.

        Having addressed your assertions, I’ll address you directly: What’s arrogant is what you attempted to do with your “library” comment: to attempt to degrade the worth of educators by minimizing the value of classes and minimizing the worth of a profession that you obviously have never attempted. You’ve essentially told me that you and your peers were so smart that classes were virtually unnecessary, and that you could pick up any knowledge you wanted by just reading a book. And you call me arrogant? Pot, kettle, black, etc. Simple projection.

      3. You lost me at “schools are businesses” – any teacher will tell you that this statement completely devalues the education that the student chooses to pay for. Yes, it is a privilege that we live in a place that allows virtually any student with the means to pay (and many that don’t) to attend higher education in some form, but it is still an active choice on behalf of the student to attend school and adhere to its rules, as well as act with basic principles of professionalism.

        At the level that this MBA student is apparently at, it is clear that he is has been in the collegiate “game” for awhile. At the graduate/postgraduate levels, there is a certain degree of professionalism that is expected to be exhibited by not only the professor but by the student, as well.

        Don’t get me wrong – schools and money go hand in hand in some respects – I know this from my continuing collegiate experience. However, TEACHING and LEARNING (isn’t that why we choose to pursue higher education?) is summed up as this at every level: facilitating the acquisition of new or deepening knowledge from a more knowledgeable other. I don’t see money anywhere in that, really.

    3. You state “If you’re an employee, you don’t sass the boss, or anyone above you.”

      In this case, the employee is the professor, NOT the student.

      My grandmother (a psychology professor at a second-rate university) used to love to tell me that “college freshmen think they know everything.” After getting my own PhD I learned that the proper retort was “and professors at second-rate institutions are absolutely sure of it.”

    4. Anon – Although I overwhelmingly agree with the points you make in your two posts, I believe you may be overestimating the amount students wish to tap into your expertise.

      For a student to care about tapping into your expertise, the following three conditions must be met. 1) You have expertise in the subject area, 2) The student cares about learning, 3) you are the most efficient source of transmitting this expertise (i.e., the course material is not easily obtainable through other methods). I discuss each of these below.

      Assumption 1- Professors have expertise in the subject area: In an MBA program, it is often the case that the professors do not have real world expertise in the areas they teach. For example, it is very common for finance professors to have a purely academic background with no significant banking experience. Yet these same professors will teach courses on M&A, investments, etc. Oftentimes students/peers who were involved in HF, PE, etc will know significantly more about how finance is conducted “real world”. The same goes for strategy professors who often times went straight from an undergraduate program to a doctoral program specializing in decision science or economics. Strategy in theory is nothing like strategy utilized in a board room or in the real world. B-school professors are incredibly smart – yet, they often don’t possess the expertise in the subject area. Students aren’t going to want to tap into your expertise if it’s not relevant to the real world.

      Assumption 2 – Students care about learning: While many students are interested in learning, a very large number would say that their primary purpose for going to school is for a reason other than seeking enlightenment. These reasons might include post-graduation career opportunities, networking opportunities, etc. If students were offered an option to get straight As without attending class/learning, many would choose to do so. This is particularly true of business school where students view their time in an MBA program as a 2 year vacation between two stressful jobs. Your expertise in an area may not mean very much to these students.

      Assumption 3 – You are the most efficient source of transmitting this expertise: There are many situations and concepts that require an expert like yourself to guide a novice. However, there are MANY cases where the teacher is clearly not the most efficient way to learn for students. The fact that undergraduate lower division math/science courses at many state universities are taught by lecturers/graduate students who have difficulty communicating in English, exemplifies this. For these courses, online videos such as the Kahn Academy, or just reading the textbook, might be able to synthesize key points in a much more efficient manner. There definitely seems to be a trend in education away from “expert teachers” including K-12 charter schools moving away from experienced teachers to computer adaptive learning modules, and universities experimenting with online courses with minimal student/teacher interaction. When the professor is no longer the most efficient way for a student to learn about the material at hand, the student will not care to tap into the professor’s expertise.

      My feeling is that it is often the case that at least one of those assumptions is violated, either by the student, or by the teacher, and so students often aren’t concerned at all about “tapping into” the professor’s expertise. Again, I generally agreed with all your other points. I’d love to hear your thoughts.

  70. You pay for a degree, you come and go at will. If you want to work hard and do all that and get straights A’s that’s great; if you want to do the bare minimum and still get pretty much the same piece of paper it doesn’t really matter. One student slipping into the back of a lecture is not as distracting as the self righteous professor that needs to call them out on it.

    1. Yeah, this is completely wrong. You pay for the opportunity to learn, and if you learn enough to become proficient, you _earn_ a degree. If you do the bare minimum, you often do not pass a class, and not enough credits = no degree. Or in some cases, you take classes, and eventually take a comprehensive exam. If you didn’t learn what you were supposed to, and fail the exam, no degree. Even if you paid $50,000 for those classes–if you fail that exam, no degree.

      It’s not quid pro quo . . . it’s not “pay money, get degree.” If you think that, you are missing the mark, WIDELY.

  71. [...] Feel like I probably linked this a couple years ago, but I still love it [...]

  72. I can’t believe anyone would defend this student. Yes, you are free to come to class an hour late, but be prepared to pay the meager consequences, and come back next class! “I didn’t know yet” is not a valid excuse. WTF?!?! Bunch of coddled pansies who think otherwise.

  73. Student: WRONG
    Professor: CORRECT

    end of story…..

    DON’T BE TARDY FOR THE PARTAAYY!!!
    (no excuses allowed!!)

  74. Comparatively speaking, I went to college when the earth started to cool. We went to class. On the first day, we were given a syllabus. We did as we were instructed and to the best of our ability, and we hoped for the best. In today’s culture of higher education, students in the U.S., at least, are viewed (erroneously so) as ‘consumers’. They now ‘shop’ for courses. In truth, most are doing so because they want to get by with the least number of pages to read and papers to write. I was fortunate enough to read for a graduate degree at Oxford University. As some of you may know, Oxford’s Tutorial system is hundreds of years old. Unlike the system in the U.S., the Tutorial system places the greatest burden on the student to produce his or her own scholarship under the direction of a truly distinguished scholar in the student’s chosen course of study. Students there do not shop for tutors or syllabi – because they can’t ultimately escape being held almost solely responsible for their own learning. They must produce weekly papers – and defend those ideas in individual tutorials with their professors who could have written their fledgling thoughts ages ago – but who continue to maintain the student’s dignity in the correct, educationally appropriate manner – through Socratic discussion and inquiry. This in contrast to U.S. professors who, unfortunately, maintain the student’s dignity by according respect to the student only because they pay tuition. It is unimaginable, almost, to consider what an Oxford professor would do to a student who arrives to a seminar, lecture, or Tutorial almost an hour late. It isn’t tolerated….but there again, it simply isn’t done. American students suffer from being by-products of consumerism. Many are under the illusion that they are truly being educated, when, in fact, they are not. The result – students who graduate with inflated grades to accompany their inflated and false sense of self. I applaud this professor for so many reasons and on so many levels.

    1. Regardless of whether the student should be viewed as a consumer, a customer, or simply a person who is fortunate enough to be in that class, that student does have the right to be treated with some dignity. While I think that the behavior is deserving of criticism, and the student’s email is idiotic, the professor’s response is much more deserving of criticism. There’s very little need for such a condescending tone, especially while trying to give a student a lesson about respect (rather ironic in my estimation). Furthermore; forwarding the response, anonymous or not, is totally unprofessional. It sends the message that other students should not come to this man looking to be treated with respect, and is damaging to the classroom experience for the other students in that regard.

      1. And here’s my Southern upbringing and philosophy coming through: “You have to break them down to build them up.” If the student lacks the obvious concern and respect for the professor’s and his/her classmates’ dignity – then they have no right to expect the same. The professor’s response was on point…and that student may well have learned a very valuable lesson (such as not coming late to a strategy session for a product entering the market penetration phase)…. Who knows?

      2. The student had a right to be treated with dignity right up to the point of that ridiculous email. At that point, dignity was pretty much out the window. I disagreed with Galloway’s actions, but I have every sympathy for what he expressed in the email, and zero sympathy for the student. And the student has learned a lesson: if you pass a tiger and he only snarls, for God’s sake, don’t go back and poke him because he snarled. You’ll get the claws.

        I didn’t see any indication that Galloway treated anyone else with a lack of respect. Many times, stupidity has consequences, and I’d bet that the class learned that very valuable lesson. Don’t want to be embarrassed? Don’t be stupid. I can’t think of a single one of my students who would have sent that email, and they’re mainly freshmen and sophomores, much less grad students.

    2. Here Here ! Totally correct.

  75. I don’t think this student was disrespectful. I think her attempt to use the auditing period, if that is what NYU has (it appears so), was a deliberate effort to use effective time management. I am normally very conservative and in favor of rules and decorum, but in this case I feel like the professor is just a petty tyrant, ruling over the one little dominion he can control and abusing his students, with all sorts of rationalizations, to satisfy his (not really so secure) self-importance. As they say, “those who can do; those who can’t, teach.” Get out in the real world, “professor” Galloway, and deal with some real competition and time pressures.

  76. They’re both assholes. So is everyone here. So am I.

  77. The student paid for an education.

    That’s just what the professor gave her.

    Where’s the problem?

  78. Reblogged this on Jason Hsiao and commented:
    Every MBA needs to read this. The world doesn’t care about what you think you’re “entitled” to. Respect. Humility. That’s what true leadership is about.

  79. This is completely retarded. The student has the right to “shop” for classes if he’s paying for it. It’s obvious the student wanted to make sure he takes the class that will best suit his needs. Shopping doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about his classes/professors, in fact this shows his commitment to the course that he finds suitable. Maybe everyone else in the class was satisfied with just reading a short description of the class and maybe hearing a couple verbal descriptions from prior students. But in the same way that you can’t experience a book by reading the blurb or hearing somebody describe it, the student wanted to experience each class first hand. Come to think of it, can you ever really appreciate/understand anything if you only hear about it indirectly? It was the first day of class. Cut him some slack.

    For everyone comparing the class to a job, it astounds me how stupid this comparison is. Yes, there are plenty of parallels between the two but the topic in question (coming in late) is completely different in an education environment and in a workplace. I really shouldn’t have to explain this but after reading some of the comments, I am compelled to spell out the difference. No one shops for jobs because most people find a job and stick with it. In school, you can choose from a myriad of courses because that’s how school works. Did you know you can add and drop classes too? You can pretty much choose any course you want because the whole university system was designed to be accessible to the students who, you know, pay a small fortune just to attend. Oh by the way, if you didn’t know, jobs pay you to work there, not the other way around. Therefore the workplace-job comparison is completely unfounded.

    Onto the actual people themselves, it’s not like the student was extremely rude to the professor. He even sent an email explaining his actions (the student’s) when he could’ve just dropped the issue. In addition, the professor’s response in its entirety is just straight douchebaggery. If Galloway really didn’t harbor any affinity or animosity like he claimed, the email would’ve been a lot shorter. Instead we get several pages of discourse that reeks of pretentiousness. Reading the professor’s response I immediately got the impression that he was telling the student off and enjoying every word of it. Why? Because the student was from a different generation? Because the professor was having a bad day? Because the professor was truly offended? We’ll never know. In any case, a professor that can’t handle a student walking in late and causing a minor disturbance is too sensitive to be teaching, especially, and I’ll reiterate, on the first goddamn day of class. What happens if a student needs to use the bathroom? If Galloway really didn’t want to be interrupted, he should’ve just ignored the student, that’s easy enough to do right? But no, the professor had to stop the class to refuse the student. Do you know why the student thought it was ok to come in late? Because all the other professors don’t have a problem with it on the first day of school. Because other professors don’t hold themselves to such a high degree that their attendance policy is tantamount to that of a dictator.

    Maybe it’s because this is Stern we’re talking about and I attend Tisch so I don’t really understand the dynamics of that particular school. Maybe that’s true. But over here at Tisch we treat people like people, lateness like lateness, and assholes like assholes. If everybody would stop being little fucking divas and stop generalizing (I’m looking at you, the people that wrote off my entire generation as lazy and self-centered) maybe we can actually get some work done.

    1. Agree, although people do shop for jobs. At least I do and most people I know. It’s not like companies are doing you a favor by hiring you. I get several offers a week, and after interviews, I choose the best offer. If most people don’t, it’s either because their job market is saturated or because they just take the first job they get for some weird reason.

      1. After INTERVIEWS you choose the best offer. You don’t go into the office, sit down at a desk, start disrupting their work day. You meet with one person whose job it is to discuss the position with you. You aren’t interrupting/disrupting the entire company “shopping” for that job…

  80. In my opinion, this professor was dead-on, and not at all unreasonable. This student is a Master’s candidate. If they haven’t figured out the basic rules of etiquette yet, they have many more troubles than one professor dismissing them from class. Time to pull on the big-kid pants.

  81. The professor is not too bright either. By teaching someone something as rudely as he did, he makes me think he is jaded, unappreciated, and derives his sense of value from the formal, and not substantive aspects of authority. Students should not do what this student did, but Any student is better off, not taking this guy’s class.

    1. My God. Your lack of understanding is truly stunning.

  82. The professor is a self-important ass. There was a way to address this student without being a dick. She’s a freshman, we were all there and didn’t know shit. I’m sure he forgot to mention that her money will ow go elsewhere, and he is now on the don’t take this douchbag’a class list. That’ll fuck you good.

    1. You didn’t even read this, did you. “freshman”? Try reading the article, and know that the student in question is in a GRADUATE PROGRAM. My Lord, reading comprehension, people!

      1. Anonymous: don’t waste your time replying to people like ARoss – they’re just playing devil’s advocate. As you pointed out, the student is an MBA candidate, NOT a freshman who didn’t know $hit.

  83. When I read the headline, I thought “Oh, nice, can’t wait to see some whiny brat getting skewered.” However, what I discovered is a kindergarten approach in the whole affair, on both sides, professor and student. I say this with experience with universities in the US and in Europe where professors tend not to mince words as much as they do in the US. Here, the trappings of formality not only apply to professor-student relationships (think the German obsession with titles, “Herr Herr Professor”), but to society in general (I’ve seen some of these things soften over time, arguably in England, but England’s about as European as New Zealand).

    First, no one ever gives you a run down of “class policy” when “class policy” means how late you can be, what not to wear, what sorts of words should be avoided, and so on. It is merely a known that if you’re more than 15 minutes late, you generally shouldn’t bother showing up in the first place. If you are up to 15 minutes late, you apologize and sit down, and if that time exceeds 15 minutes, well, it depends on the professor on how he’ll react. In any case, the point is that even though the student-professor relationship in Europe tends to be of a more formal nature, the net effect is that the student-professor relationship tends to be, in my personal experience, less condescending and authoritarian. By having to state tardiness rules and such nonsense, the effect is that American students are treated like babies, and by implication, this places the professor on an obnoxious pedestal, as if he were some kind of god who, out of his divine mercy, has finally, though reluctantly, agreed to bestow us with the scraps of his infinite wisdom. Personally, I would feel insulted having to be read a policy like that, and I frankly always have been. Imagine is a professor told you “Rule #3: don’t chew gum in class. Rule #4. don’t play noisy games on your cell phone.” Wouldn’t you be insulted to even hear that? If not, then congratulations. You’re officially an infantile grunt.

    Second, I find the way classes are often run to be babyish as well. That is, if you’re an adult, you know you’re competence in a subject. Though university policy usually requires that you attend lectures (as opposed to more interactive classes where attendance is generally not negotiable), professors will often allow you to study independently and then pass the exam. I never understood the overemphasis on attendance, the “3 strikes you’re out” nonsense. It’s not that you shouldn’t attend in most cases, it’s that it shouldn’t be so mechanistically and formally approached across the board. Very often, European professors will put you through a written or often an oral exam which fails students quite regularly, though usually you’re give the opportunity to repeat (after which, if you fail, you’re out of the university; you can’t retake the class). The point, again, is that this empty adherence to a childish formality at US universities really sets up a childish dynamic in the classroom and makes the university a very unpleasant and needlessly rigid place to be (and obnoxiously informal at a different level at the same time, as American culture tends to be). It’s counterproductive and the net effect isn’t free and rigorous thinking, but a kind of lingering fear about disagreeing with the dogmas of the subject. Make no mistake, I believe a student should be familiar with the material, but when erudition trumps free thought, nothing can stifle the intellect more than blind adherence. European universities may suffer from overformalization in other areas, particularly in bureaucratic matters, but the one thing they don’t suffer from, in my experience at least, is childish classroom formalism.

    Third, to the person who said that the student isn’t a customer, you’re right. He’s worse than a customer. The outrageous tuition that’s payed in the US isn’t merely because universities are private. If you actually trace the rise of tuition, you’ll note that it doesn’t scale with the inflation of the dollar or any reasonable cause. The simple fact of the matter is that because the federal loan system is so liberal, universities have allowed themselves to charge more and more over time because they know someone will cover the bill in the end. Education isn’t as expensive as it’s been made to be. Universities have become de facto businesses more than what they originally represented, viz., an organization in which students can truly develop intellectually. I emphasize truly because universities don’t do that. Today, they’re nothing but trade schools and a $200,000 BYOB party.

    Fourth, as far as having the right to demand anything from a professor having payed for his course, I think we’re being too emotional here. Obviously, paying the professor’s salary doesn’t entitle you to shitting on his head. What it does entitle you to exactly is a topic beyond the scope of this post. However, the student could have done the reasonable thing and made good use of the 2 weeks before registration is closed and attended two different classes of the three he found most interesting (and you’re damn right he has the right to check both out when he’s paying the ridiculous fee he’s paying). The risk analysis statement is stupid, and this business professor should have known that even in keeping with the mistake of framing the class as some daring investment; all business is risk, and without risk, you go nowhere. And besides, what’s the risk in taking a course that turns out to be less interesting? It’s not like you’re sinking $50 million dollars into a questionable technology. Very poor analogy, especially given that most lectures are poorly executed.

    All in all, the student was foolish and strange in his email, but in the end, the professor was just as childish, presumptuous and arrogant. If he wanted to chastise the student, he could have done so without the awkward vitriol. And truth be told, this post wasn’t even worth posting. Why is some particular private and meaningless exchange the talk of the town? Who hasn’t had a professor who likes to sprinkle his lectures with pirate talk? Or is this some puerile, seething American resentment looking for an occasion, any pretext, to vent?

    Grow up.

  84. I’m a postdoctoral researcher in neuroscience, and I’ve taught several classes in the faculty of science under both neuroscience and computer science. More than that, I’m also actively engaged in the science pedagogy, and active learning techniques to enable students to become better learners, or more actively engage to get the most out of their coursework and classroom experience. Even more than that, during my own undergraduate degree I had two classes that were unfortunately scheduled and overlapped by 30 minutes, so I have experienced a similarly challenging situation than this student.

    For a variety of pedagogical reasons, it’s extremely common (and students are often encouraged) to search for courses that offer content they are interested in and can integrate into their program of study, a lecture and evaluation style that matches their own learning strengths (for example, board notes versus slides, lecture versus seminar, exams versus projects), and a balanced workload that they can manage with their other classes. This has been the case at each of the Universities I have been employed at or attended, and the normal period for this is a few weeks.

    It’s an uncommon situation that the courses a student wishes to choose between may end up scheduled by the registrar at the same time. If they’re evening classes (as these appear to be), the classes can often be 3 hours long, which means there’s likely only 12 to 14 per semester (versus approximately 40 1 hour long classes). Missing one or more of these means that a student can lose a much larger chunk of course content by choosing to attend one the first week, and another the second week.

    As a student actively engaged in shaping my curriculum and finding an interesting, engaging course that would complement my other coursework, I’d have easily chosen to sample each of them on the first night they were offered (exactly as this student did) as a way of balancing this scheduling issue and finding a course to add to my education. Because that’s, in the end, what the goal is — and the effect of any student walking into my lectures late is in general 10 seconds of pause — in my experience this is an overreaction to a non-issue on the part of the professor, and a very well written explanation on the part of the student to help remedy things and remind the professor of the importance of being able to shape ones education in the face of scheduling issues.

    1. Sorry, Peter. You’re simply wrong.

      1. A compelling rebuttal from Vance if I’ve ever seen one. Perhaps you could explain why?

      2. Maybe an explanation of why you think they’re wrong would be more helpful.

    2. Comparatively speaking, I went to college when the earth started to cool. We went to class. On the first day, we were given a syllabus. We did as we were instructed and to the best of our ability, and we hoped for the best. In today’s culture of higher education, students in the U.S., at least, are viewed (erroneously so) as ‘consumers’. They now ‘shop’ for courses. In truth, most are doing so because they want to get by with the least number of pages to read and papers to write. I was fortunate enough to read for a graduate degree at Oxford University. As some of you may know, Oxford’s Tutorial system is hundreds of years old. Unlike the system in the U.S., the Tutorial system places the greatest burden on the student to produce his or her own scholarship under the direction of a truly distinguished scholar in the student’s chosen course of study. Students there do not shop for tutors or syllabi – because they can’t ultimately escape being held almost solely responsible for their own learning. They must produce weekly papers – and defend those ideas in individual tutorials with their professors who could have written their fledgling thoughts ages ago – but who continue to maintain the student’s dignity in the correct, educationally appropriate manner – through Socratic discussion and inquiry. This in contrast to U.S. professors who, unfortunately, maintain the student’s dignity by according respect to the student only because they pay tuition. It is unimaginable, almost, to consider what an Oxford professor would do to a student who arrives to a seminar, lecture, or Tutorial almost an hour late. It isn’t tolerated….but there again, it simply isn’t done. American students suffer from being by-products of consumerism. Many are under the illusion that they are truly being educated, when, in fact, they are not. The result – students who graduate with inflated grades to accompany their inflated and false sense of self. I applaud this professor for so many reasons and on so many levels.

      1. I’m with you, Vance Jenkins, on every one of your replies.

  85. Wow. I’m certainly glad the student in question wound up taking another class, as he surely learned more about “Brand Strategy” from this email exchange than Professor Galloway could have taught in a semester. A professor who would publicly berate his student (both in-class and via email to his entire class, including forwarding on a private message (while the student’s name was removed, surely everyone who saw him try to come in late knows his identity) to a large audience of the student’s peers) for daring to evaluate his options an choose the course that might best suit his learning objectives is one who clearly knows how to do only one thing in branding: brand himself as an obnoxious, self-important, and petty jerk. If our Professor wasn’t trying to demonstrate to the class how a single outburst can “go viral” and tarnish brands, he’s in the wrong line of work.

    In fairness, Professor Galloway did manage to realize this (see his take at http://bigthink.com/users/scottgalloway), but only after 11+ million people saw the emails, and he thinks so highly of himself that he thinks the whole experience reflects well on him instead of realizing that he’s acted like a jackass in front of 11+ million people. Get your shit together indeed…

    1. Very true. I also think though, it’s not just about him being an ass, it’s about his failure to understand modern communication systems.

  86. Bryden Mccurdy | Reply

    I attend a school where the curriculum is fantastic but the majority of the student body are rude, uneducated, charity cases. They talk through lectures amd text all through class. Unfortunately hardly any of the professors will stand up and tell them to knock it off. I applaud this man!

  87. If there is nothing in the school’s policy which states that a student cannot sample courses at specific times of the day, then the professor is dead wrong. The old phart needs to understand he doesn’t run the school, and that interruptions can and will continue to happen as long as the school allows class sampling. That is why he is just a grumpy old professor.

    1. As far as I know, professors set class etiquette, not the university. There are university-wide codes of responsible student conduct, but those don’t cover class policies.

  88. professor sounds like a stuck up douche bag

    1. Educators like this exist within their bubbles where they do believe they are Masters of the Universe and forget there is a real world outside their four walls.

  89. Comparatively speaking, I went to college when the earth started to cool. We went to class. On the first day, we were given a syllabus. We did as we were instructed and to the best of our ability, and we hoped for the best. In today’s culture of higher education, students in the U.S., at least, are viewed (erroneously so) as ‘consumers’. They now ‘shop’ for courses. In truth, most are doing so because they want to get by with the least number of pages to read and papers to write. I was fortunate enough to read for a graduate degree at Oxford University. As some of you may know, Oxford’s Tutorial system is hundreds of years old. Unlike the system in the U.S., the Tutorial system places the greatest burden on the student to produce his or her own scholarship under the direction of a truly distinguished scholar in the student’s chosen course of study. Students there do not shop for tutors or syllabi – because they can’t ultimately escape being held almost solely responsible for their own learning. They must produce weekly papers – and defend those ideas in individual tutorials with their professors who could have written their fledgling thoughts ages ago – but who continue to maintain the student’s dignity in the correct, educationally appropriate manner – through Socratic discussion and inquiry. This in contrast to U.S. professors who, unfortunately, maintain the student’s dignity by according respect to the student only because they pay tuition. It is unimaginable, almost, to consider what an Oxford professor would do to a student who arrives to a seminar, lecture, or Tutorial almost an hour late. It isn’t tolerated….but there again, it simply isn’t done. American students suffer from being by-products of consumerism. Many are under the illusion that they are truly being educated, when, in fact, they are not. The result – students who graduate with inflated grades to accompany their inflated and false sense of self. I applaud this professor for so many reasons and on so many levels.

    1. Students ARE the Consumers when they have to pay for the “product,” that being the knowledge delivered by the Employees (Professors). Why is it “erroneous” to label this pecking order in this way? Beyond Professor ego, I mean.

      1. The academic relationship between professor and student is not the same. To reduce it to mere consumerism is to devalue something that has been sacrosanct since the Age of Socrates. Most universities outside the U.S. get this. In today’s model of “student as consumer” – “professor as employee” – students ultimately lose, because, on the whole, they expect (and mostly receive) grades they didn’t earn. Professors would much prefer to research, write, and publish than deal with an impertinent child and squabble over grades. In the end, they give the baby the pacifier (the A). The baby is pacified (no more whining and jumping up and down and threats to go to the Dean). But it doesn’t address the baby’s true needs (true mastery of the content). Like it or not – and on the whole – this is where we are as a culture.

  90. i would not have left the class unless he called security to remove me. point, blank, period…

    1. Then you would have had security called, and been arrested for criminal trespass. That just reeks of genius.

    2. I have had students like you physically removed from my class (State Uni in NY). And then dropped them after speaking with the Dean. It’s easy to say things like that, but the bottom line is exactly what others have said above–the classroom is the professor’s domain. Full stop. If you choose to flaunt the rules, you’re out. And life goes on.

      1. If you are a true Professor, you are out of line. The Students are the Consumers who pay YOUR salary in purchasing the “product” which is “knowledge” which YOU, the EMPLOYEE, is hired to deliver.

        Check your ego at the door and remember your place. Full stop.

      2. That’s one big bucket of horse piss, Bryan. Dude up above said it, in case your dumb ass missed it. Read the prof and learn:

        “Schools are not businesses. The most basic point of a business is to make money. The most basic point of a university is to educate, not to make money, and that inherently makes it NOT A BUSINESS. It takes infrastructure and people to carry out the mission of a university, and that’s what costs money. There are “for-profit universities.” For instance, the “University of Phoenix.” These “universities” are invariably poor at what they do because their primary motivation is profit, not education. Or do you think that the “University of Phoenix” is comparable with your alma mater?

        Comparing a university to a business just because it takes a lot of money to run is as invalid as comparing the military to a business because it takes a lot of money to run. You benefit from the military. You, however, are not the customer of the military, and you don’t get to walk onto a base and tell a Marine what to do simply because your tax dollars contribute to the military. You don’t pay a lieutenant’s salary, and s/he doesn’t answer to you. In the same sense, you are not the customer of a university, and you don’t get to walk onto a campus and dictate what goes on there, either. ”

        ‘Nuff said, Bryan. Don’t let that door hit you in the ass on the way out. Full stop.

      3. I very much DO pay the Lieutenant’s salary via my taxes.

        A University IS a business and students ARE the customers. The Product is the education. Suggesting that a University isn’t a business is like suggesting that McDonald’s isn’t a business because it is there to feed you hamburgers and money is just, ya know, one of those extraneous things we don’t need to consider.

        The student in this scenario categorically was NOT telling anyone what to do nor was he/she attempting to change any rules. Clearly signing up for three simultaneous classes was not against the rules because the University allowed it to happen. The Professor has a cushy job and feels he is Lord God in his own Bubble Universe. The student is paying a tremendous amount of money to DISCOVER what it is he/she will be doing for the rest of his/her life. It’s the job of the University…the FOR-PROFIT BUSINESS… to provide the education (the product) to help students determine that via curriculum, not via an insulting ego-driven snarky public email.

        Full stop.

      4. I am not a teacher of any sort… Yes, Universities are businesses, but to say a professorship is “cushy” or a well paid position… you clearly have no concept of the pay scale for most college professors. I have 2 in my friends and family group. they live strictly middle class and not up in some mansion.
        You want us to think of college as a business, fine. the professor was the manager of that particular franchise and that franchise has its rule. he upheld that rule and sent the employee home for not following set policies… one of common sense. I have taken multiple classes before to see which I wanted. I sat through an entire class and then on the next scheduled day for the other went to the other class and reached my decision what to do. It is a common enough practice. I did not get up halfway through and jump into another. What are you going to get out of a 20 minute sampling any way. Still, the matter was more about courtesy… to the professor, to the other students, and yes… to the student that thought jumping from one class to another would be ok, then decided to drag out the experience by writing the email.

  91. Whoever thinks this professor is rude or out of line is a simpering, self-entitled, preternaturally fragile wimp. Not that this kind of student doesn’t overpopulate our college campuses already. Good luck in the business word, Sampler Chick.

  92. I’ve got lots of feelings here… hear me out through the whole thing, if you care to.

    FIRST – As a college student, I was righteously angered with this behavior of this student. This just reeks of what I like to call Spoiled College Student Entitlement – to think you can just get up and walk out of class (on the first day, no doubt) without any stated reason or note the professor beforehand. First, there are other ways to preview a class (talk to friends, email the professors, ask them to email you the syllabus if they are allowed). Second, if you are going to go this goofy route, at least notify the instructors beforehand. And my gosh, be thankful you are allowed a higher education in the first place.

    NEXT – This professor is most obviously a hardass and a respected badass. He is the kind of professor I’d personally like to have because he accepts no bullshit. I think he has a lot of “sage advice” BUT he is also considered a “popular professor.” This isn’t a bad thing necessarily, and he certainly proves a point with his email. However, should he wield his badassery in a way that severely and publicly could potentially humiliate another student? Some people, yeah, they need to learn the hard way, and I don’t feel that what this student did was right, but does the professor have the right to broadcast it? It gives me pause, because making an example of students in a negative light has the potential to be very damaging, and I am sure that there are students that personally know/have seen the student in question, so it’s not very anonymous that he removed the name. Now it is all over the Internet. If I went viral on the Internet/my campus, beaming reamed outright for my carelessness and poor decision-making, I would probably feel quite shamed. There might have been a better way to go about this. Eh, my feelings are mixed on this. It does seem a bit harsh.

    LAST – A little more on the badass professor: as much as I initially thought this guy was super awesome for putting an apparently entitled student in his/her place, I think this doesn’t set a very good example of how professors should act on a whole, especially professors or any kind of teachers that are new to the game. He can get away with this because he is a popular, well-loved, and respected teacher that. If most other professors did this, I’d wager they’d find themselves with some nasty business brewing. Especially in this sue-happy age… gotta be careful.

  93. Or the student could check http://www.ratemyprofessor.com for more info… lol

    1. That’s how I get a lot of my students. :-)

  94. Let’s not get it twisted, the professor is no hero. He wanted to humiliate the student and nothing more. If nothing at all, sending a copy of the email to the entire class is proof enough.

  95. It seems that the whole of the professors argument is predicated upon the students actions, which he claims violate a “baseline level of decorum”. If the precedent set at this university is that class “sampling” is rude, offensive, and unacceptable, then the professor is absolutely correct; the student does “need to get their **** together.” If however the status quo says that class sampling perfectly acceptable, then this professor is an presumptuous ass.

  96. Johnny Carleton | Reply

    WOW I say they’re both bourgeoisie idiots suffering from 2 respective cases of first world problems … I hope one day I have a luxurious enough job where I can take the leisurely time out of my day to come up with a thorough, well-thought-out response to some Nobody’s flippant non-email. If I was that professor, I’d delete it with the rest of my junk mail and get back to doing something more productive … like bullshitting on facebook or youtube for instance, or idk … doing the job that affords such a lifestyle. Selecting one student for special attention, even “tough love,” is the stuff of lifetime movies and hallmark cards … empty self-congratulatory ego posturing that makes my stomach turn. Call me a cynic, but I don’t think you can fix student xxxx’s brand of privileged “I’m so special” stupid. It’s best to not even validate it … even if you are a charismatic and well-payed business professor.

  97. I would walk in to the next class 2 hrs late and piss on the desk and tell him I was still working on getting my sh!t together.

    1. Good one!

  98. This professor is real smart.
    Wonder if he knows about locking doors.

  99. Dr. Gerard Finkleburg | Reply

    I am a university professor and I would just like to say everyone should eat more acid and molly and smoke weed every day. Trust me, I am a doctor … unlike many of the obvious imitations I see lurking this thread. Stay in school kids!

  100. It seems there is no way that both of them might be correct. The professor can force what ever rules he wants in the class. on the other hand comparing a class with the business meeting is like assuming that the professor is CEO of Goldman Sachs. He is not, so he could just say that it is his rule. Making further assumptions is a mistake. If the professor is so genius and successful why he didn’t prevent 2008 recession.

  101. No urinating on desks?! But I pay 40k a year!

  102. This is utter stupidity on both parts. Regardless of what the student should be able to do according to their absurd tuition payments, the teacher runs the classroom and if they tell you to get out, you get out. Also, very reasonably WORDED letter to the professor, but entirely unreasonable to even write such a letter. With that said, the Prof is clearly a joker. If you respond to students that way youre a child. A graduate student was late to a class and you tell them to get their shit together? Youre a joke. Typical business schools jamokes on both sides. Do yourself a favor and get a real degree. Marketing professor … HA!

  103. Back in school | Reply

    This is sad since I know this is a common practice for kids who don’t know the teacher. There are many teacher who take advantage of kids, because they are kids. Maybe some sensitivity training would be good for this teacher. What I learned is he is a jerk, probably need to step onto the streets and learn some practical skills like common sense. I am an older fellow and have seen some real bad teacher that have not been called out due to they have the “just a kid” defense. Have a bit of a heart for kids who would like to learn they pay your wages you very controlling nut, really on the first day. Your college should be happy people go, this attitude will slowly ruin a school. Pray I do not become a dean, I will chew and spit out mean teacher. Replacements are a dime a dozen.

    1. “Kids” don’t get MBA’s. If this were a “kid,” maybe. But it is a graduate student. Graduate students tend to be seen more as professionals than as kids. If an employee does not show up for work until 2/3 of the way through the shift, the boss does not say, “Oh, he/she was only 24 or 23 years old, I understand. I should let it slide and forget the rules for now.”

      Making the students happy is not the point of the class. The student didn’t show up, the applicable rule applied. Yes, this may be controlling, but that is because the professor is in charge. The job of the professor is to form and uphold his/her classroom rules, and seeming to lenient on the first day can be a serious problem for the rest of the semester, so the rules must, in fact, be observed, even on the first day. This is not always the case, but it depends on the professors previous experiences. I used to be a lot more lenient as a professor, until too many students too advantage of that, and I just had to start being a little more strict.

  104. Although I can see how during the semester human decency, politeness, and respect for the professor should prevent students from walking in this late, on the first day it’s a completely different story. Many schools, like mine, have ever-shrinking drop/add periods. At my university the period is now TWO DAYS. It starts Monday and is over Tuesday. If you happen to be interested in a class that meets once a week on Wednesday, you’re SOL. If you happen to want a class that meets twice/three times a week, then you can only make it two one class before you decide. Many times, classes are scheduled in the same time slots, so if you only have ONE chance to attend a class before you can drop it, and there is no humanly possible way to attend both at the same time? You have to do what this student did. I don’t know the drop/add policy at the Stern business school, of course, but I am saddened by the overwhelming support for the professor, when there are other forces at play here that may be forcing the student to what he/she did.

    1. The student should have had a suspicion that showing up to class late could be a potential problem. They are, after all, a grad student. So it would have been a good idea to email the professor ahead of time to discuss the plan to come late. The student could then have come to this class first.

      What’s worse, though, is that the student couldn’t simply accept the unfortunate consequences. The student can’t take all three classes even if he/she wanted to, but that doesn’t mean something should be done to allow the student to do so. If the student can’t go to all three classes before the add/drop date, then the student should accept that. Or the student can show up to a class late. But according to the rules, there were also consequences to that. Instead of accepting these, the student complained about them, presumptuously writing the professor to criticize the professor’s policies. It is that level of presumption which gains support for the professor rather than the student.

  105. While I can understand the Professor’s position (and he is mostly correct), what the Professor forgets is that the Students are the Consumers and the “Knowledge” is the “Product.” Professors are essentially the employees hired to deliver the product to the Consumers who ARE paying the salaries of the Professors.

    Yes, respect is necessary. Yes, it is rude to just get up and walk out early and conversely arrive very late. The student’s method of “sampling” isn’t a very effective way to choose which class to take nor was it polite. BUT, it is the Student’s/Consumer’s money in the end so the Professor’s condescending attitude was a bit out of line as he misses his part in the equation. Student = Consumer/Employer. Professor = Product/Employee.

    1. WRONG. You obv. didn’t read a reply above by anonymous prof.

      this whole deal about students being customers is, frankly, bullshit. You do not pay my salary. The university pays my salary. Some of you need to learn that not everything in life can be reduced to business terms. This is not a business. This is a school. I am not trying to sell you a product. You are not a customer. You are a student. I am trying to educate you. You are paying for an opportunity. You are paying for the opportunity to say, “I have x degree.” This does not guarantee that doors will open. It does guarantee that some doors will not automatically close. If you don’t like those terms, go flip burgers for a while and see if those terms don’t become dramatically more attractive. If this sounds arrogant, too bad. It’s not personal. It’s academic.

      and

      Schools are not businesses. The most basic point of a business is to make money. The most basic point of a university is to educate, not to make money, and that inherently makes it NOT A BUSINESS. It takes infrastructure and people to carry out the mission of a university, and that’s what costs money. There are “for-profit universities.” For instance, the “University of Phoenix.” These “universities” are invariably poor at what they do because their primary motivation is profit, not education. Or do you think that the “University of Phoenix” is comparable with your alma mater?

      Additionally, tuition is not, in many cases, the main driver of a university’s finances. Federal funding, federal grant funding, state funding, and donations play major roles in funding universities. Therefore, students do not pay my salary. They certainly do not DIRECTLY pay my salary. The customer-business analogy could not be much more inapt. Or inept, for that matter.

      Dude has it right, you got it wrong so take your rushbo ann coulter bs and push it somehwere else.

      1. Wrong. The University pays you a salary because STUDENTS pay the University. Students are the “job creators.” YOU wouldn’t have a job if not for the students or their money.

        The day the University doesn’t take in money from students is the day you can claim that a University isn’t a business. It wouldn’t operate if there wasn’t a profit. Would YOU do your job for free?

        Didn’t think so. You’re not just teaching out of the goodness of your heart. You’re doing it for cash. You’re a for-profit entity and the students are the way you get that cash.

        Yes, there are other sources of income for a University, but “Federal Funding” comes from tax dollars, “Grant Funding” comes from tax dollars, “State Funding” comes from tax dollars, and “Donations” typically come from alumni who were once students who paid THEIR money to the business.

        Learn your place.

    2. If the whole university system were to crumble because students refused to pay professors, then they would both need to find employment in the workforce of their field. As it happens, professors tend to be more qualified for those positions than the uneducated would-be-students. The students would not get the available jobs. It seems to me that students have a lot more at risk in the professor/student relationship than professors do.

      And anyway, students pay to have the chance to earn a degree and be taught by professors. They aren’t paying to boss around professors and decide what they think is worthy of their degree. If that were the case, degrees would mean nothing. That is already getting close to being the case.

  106. So the professor has a policy against late entry into the class. It’s his right. Just like it’s the student’s right to add/drop a class. Get over it. Whining in an email accomplishes nothing.

  107. I believe that both the student and professor were out of line in this situation and both could have acted differently and more respectfully. However, I’m not completely following a lot of comments that keep bringing up that the student disrupted the class full of students also paying all that money to be there. By the professors own admission, these are “grown men and women”, and what happens when students need to use the bathroom? These student are getting up to leave and re-enter the room, thereby “disrupting” the class twice. You can’t, or at least shouldn’t, tell grown adults when they can or cannot use the bathroom. This student could have come in a back entry and sat on an end seat in the back, while someone in the middle of the classroom getting up to use the restroom would be a much bigger “disturbance”. In either case, someone standing and quietly entering/exiting shouldn’t be much of a distraction if the other students are paying attention. I have sat through plenty of lectures and only when I am not fully engaged have I paid attention to people coming/going. There have been plenty of times that I’ve seen someone come back to class from the restroom and wondered how I never noticed them leave in the first place. I can see that the professor himself may find this disturbing, but to explain how utterly disruptive it is to all the other students is a huge exaggeration.

  108. I think the student’s attempt to reach out on the matter was very professional and courteous. I think the professor, despite his later comment, obviously has animosity towards this particular person and used his response as an over analytical venting session at the student’s expense. He should be ashamed of himself for not practicing more self control and tolerance. He may not agree with the “decorum” practices of the student, but he should respect the fact that two parties will not always agree on subjective topics such as manners and public expectation. In my opinion, this professor should spend more time and energy in his instructional planning rather than these bitter and sinister rantings.

    1. I’m an MBA student at NYU! I have no idea that being an hour late and disturbing others is bad! What? It’s bad? Now I’m bothered! Somebody pay attention to how I’m so bothered! No sinister rantings, please!

    2. Yes, it’s always profession for a student to teach the professors. Because the professors are there to learn from the students. The students, after all, have far more experience in both their chosen field and the educational system in general. Professors have never before been students themselves, either, so it’s really good for them to see things from a different point of view. Sorry. My point is just that there was no reason for the student to email the student except to complain and make the professor feel guilty. The professor does, at least, have the job of educating students, so if that’s what he thinks his email is doing (which I think it is), then that’s reasonable.

      Yes, he may not agree with the students tardiness. And yes, he understands that they do not agree on the issue. However, the problem is that it is his policy. If you’re an hour late you leave. He has reasons for making that rule. The student has reasons for being late. But the student does not have a reason for assuming that they should be the exception to the rule.

      Perhaps this was the professor’s free time which he used to send the email. Are professors allowed free time, or should them spend their entire lives planning their classes?

  109. The professor is awesome. The student was rude to walk in an hour late and then get pissed when the professor tells him to leave. Im in law school and if we are even 1 minute late we get thrown out. I pay over $40,000 a year where I attend school and I have the utmost respect for my professor and their rules. I don’t think that just because I pay so much money that I am entitled to walk in and out whenever I please. These people are my elders and they have had WAY more education and experience than I have.

    I am a person of this “me” generation but I refuse to be a product of it. That student deserved every word that he got. I would have told him worse than just to get his shit together.

  110. What was the point of either one of these emails?

    The first one is some entitled MBA student who stood to gain absolutely nothing by emailing the professor. She wasn’t even apologizing! The real lesson to be learned is to use risk analysis to determine the best possible outcome of your actions. In this case, it would have been the professor’s reading it, not giving a single crap about it, and deleting it. What a waste of both of their time.

    The second email is some self-important academic chastising a student at LENGTH over a matter so trivial it could have been dealt with in a curt, one-line email. I don’t disagree with the message, but I find the delivery so condescending and masturbatory that it discredits the professor’s authority to speak on decorum in the first place.

    I hope I never meet either one of these people.

  111. Okay.

    I am not choosing a side in this matter. However, reading through the comments section, I am deeply disturbed by how walking into a class late is being compared to “urinating on desks” or “ordering food”.

    People, this is a 10 second walk to a desk. Stop comparing it to actions that are obviously absurd in a classroom setting.

  112. There is only one reasonable position in this thread. The student was wrong. Period. End of discussion. Any university student in most countries other than the U.S. would be obliterated for this kind of behavior. Those who uphold this student’s behavior are an intriguing commentary on where we are as a culture – and it’s not good.

    1. There is something to be said for strictness, and there is something to be said for leniency. These non-US universities could perhaps benefit from examining more of the latter. A balance is best (as I feel this professor upholds).

  113. excellent. maybe if i got an email like this freshman year i would have been a stronger student.

  114. IT’S JUST A MATTER OF BEING RESPECTFUL !!!!!! If I were the student. I would not come late. EASY!!! As an educated one, we need to respect the rules. It’s true we have paid the tuition insanely, but it doesn’t mean we could interrupt the class by being a late comer. Of course the Prof would get mad because she was disturb other student who already been in lecturing. If you want to come late and have your own rule, STOP study in an education institution. GROW UP! You’re not a teenage high school student anymore.

  115. Interrupting class? Seriously? Come on…if someone walking into a room and sitting in a seat is THAT much of a distraction. Maybe college isn’t for you. Get the hell over it teach. That kid’s paying your salary.

    1. TRY to be a teacher or lecturer! You will know!

      1. i am a lecturer, and though i may not be the same person, i can also see that the entrance of a body in a room, and often a large room, it no more insignificant than the spinning of a ceiling fan. i’m sorry its hard for you.

    2. The university pays the prof’s salary, not the student.

  116. Who really cares fuck calm down and they should all stop crying.

  117. Also, I think this student was trying to do the responsible thing by emailing the professor to explain his actions in the first place. He could have easily walked away embarrassed and never brought it up again, but instead wrote the professor and explained why he was late. While the student’s tone and approach could certainly use improvement (a good case study on business communications perhaps?), he was clearly trying to be professional and let the professor know what happened after the fact, when it wouldn’t take up any more class time, instead of responding unprofessionally through actions like running away, begging for entry, refusing to leave, getting into a shouting match with the professor in the middle of class, or urinating on desks.

    A reasonable and professional response would have been: “Thanks for the explanation, and I hope you find the class that best meets your needs this semester. For your future reference, many professors are disturbed by students entering and leaving late. In the future, you can always request a copy of the syllabus via email before the first class meeting or, at the very least, contact the professors involved in advance to let us know about any unusual scheduling conflicts.” An unreasonable and utterly unprofessional response: well we’ve already seen what that looks like above.

    1. No, the only thing the student was ‘explaining’ was that s/he was ‘bothered’ and now the professor should feel bad and say: Oh my gosh were your feelings hurt? Because you did something wrong? Oooo come here and show me your boo-boo. Widdle boo-boo! Your feelings are important!

      1. I’m not sure what the babytalk has to do with the situation, but ok…

        As I read the student’s email (and again, I want to be clear that his tone in the email was not the most effective way of getting his message across), he was trying to let the professor know what was going on from a student’s point of view, just as the professor sought to let the student know how coming to the first class late looked from a professor’s point of view. A professor is somewhat removed from the process of course selection, enrollment, and the add/drop period and perhaps thought of this student as a disrespectful flake who couldn’t manage to show up on time. The student wanted to let him know what he was thinking so that the professor may understand why a student might show up late to the first class session.

        In business, if there’s a misunderstanding between two parties, the professional thing to do is to explain yourself, apologize for any unintentional offense caused (which this student would have been well served to do more clearly in his email), and move on. The unprofessional response is to bully and berate someone and to forward a private communication on to an entire class of involved students.

      2. That’s where you are off base MZ. There was not a misunderstanding between two parties. The prof understood perfectly. The student was late. Any “misunderstanding” was purely on the part of the student.

  118. Wow. Money can’t buy manners. You either possess them or you don’t. Opinions are great
    But relax folks. This student will one day be thankful for this email. Then again, if they delete it and shrug it off, the real work world will serve this student a reality best served when he/she shows up late to work or asks others for the same respect. Karma will be that it will be an hour late and 60 grand late.

    1. JASON!!!! 4 THUMBS UP!!!!

    2. Awesome response, Jason! Right on the money! Literally!

  119. Frankly, I think the professor is a pompous ass. Really. The Professor kicking out the student mid-lecture was likely a lot more disruptive than the kid trying to slip in late …. And it’s perfectly reasonable to shop teachers the first few classes of the semester … And for prof to forward his email to other students — no doubt to humiliate the kid further. MBA programs are small, everyone knows each other … Really, major ass.

    1. So the prof is wrong for having rules of behavior for his class AND upholding those rules?

  120. The student was not wrong. I teach at a university, and students can shop between classes. Disruptions happen in college and you can’t stop them. What happens if a student has to use the bathroom? Are they supposed to send an email during the lecture to the Professor to ask for his permission? The “Professor” (who doesn’t even have a Ph.D. by the way), is out of line here. It’s a safe bet she won’t be taking his course!

    1. I keep seeing comments going “what if the student has to use the bathroom”?!

      By that age, they are toilet-trained. They can hold. They can go before class. Unless classes are more than two hours with no breaks, they should be old enough to do that.

      1. What if they are sick? What if they have a medical problem? It’s ONE student entering a classroom. It takes about 5 seconds.

      2. Excuse me? No adult deserves to be told by authorities when they can and cannot be allowed to go to the bathroom unless clear and significant safety requires otherwise (airline pilots can’t pop out to the lavatory during landing and surgeons can’t take a pee break at a critical moment in a procedure). Beyond that, everyone needs to act like an adult and behave responsibly by doing their best to visit the restroom before and after classes, minimize disruption entering and exiting the classroom if one needs to leave, and avoid missing as much of the class as possible.

        You have no idea if a student has come from three classes back-to-back and has had no time to visit a restroom or simply whether his body is just a little different from yours. Unless the use of the bathroom becomes a significant problem, and it won’t if everyone behaves like civilized adults, it requires no special rules or discussion. It is the height of hubris to believe that your role as a professor is so important that it entitles you to control over your students’ bodily functions.

      3. I would just like to add a comment to your “they should be toilet-trained” remark. I currently attend law school, and without fail every single class people (plural) constantly leave to go use the restrooms. Whether one hour into class, or twenty minutes.

    2. The university at which you teach might allow students to shop for classes, but mine does not. I teach material that is part of the course in the first few weeks of class. The add/drop date is a couple weeks in, but that is not to literally shop for classes with no regard for classroom decorum. And if students find they need to sign up for my class late, I have to give them special attention outside of class time and office hours just to make sure they know the course policies (because they can never just read the syllabus on their own). It’s frustrating and should probably be discouraged. Students should be in class to learn the material, and that’s that.

      What counts as a disruption varies by professor. Some allow late students, some don’t. Quite often strict policies are due to problems that arose from less strict ones. In a university, the instructor can set his or her policy for his or her classroom. When a student doesn’t follow the rules, then he or she must live with the consequences.

      Shopping for classes might be best for the student, but a professor’s classroom policies do not have the student’s overall academic career in mind. Exams are set when they are, not on different dates to suit what works best for each student’s schedule. A professor can’t grade a student easier because that student is taking a lot of other hard classes (this last I’ve heard plenty of times). The professor needs to run his or her class based on what is best for a student in regards to that class. And coming to class on time so that students don’t miss anything? That’s something a professor might want to promote in his or her structuring the course policies.

  121. am i the only one who thinks the professor, and all the commentators are either bitter adults or have had one too many hard ass bosses?

    if the professors policy wasn’t to ask a student to leave, i bet this observer would’ve not only been quiet as a mouse, but generally sorry. many people talked about the opportunity of paying for an opportunity to learn, but if scheduling conflicts prevent the learning your paying to pursue, why is such a situation so preposterous?

    too many professors are just angry that their “flow” got interrupted, or they think by treating students like adults that they’ll magically shape up like its the military or something. news flash, ALL LEVELS ARE EDUCATION ARE EDUCATION, NOT JOBS, NOT OBLIGATIONS, AND CERTAINLY NOT MEETINGS FOR THE FREAKIN GENIUSES OF THE WORLD. its a time to consider what you actually want it life, and take the time to learn something that will earn your place in the world, not “appease the professor” hour.

    in our society a degree is security in life, so students will try and do well and pass classes, but it doesn’t give teachers the right flaunt superiority because they can have your future degree hostage if they decide your performance wasn’t good enough. students (often with problems) show up to classes because they want to, and its clear this student wants to have an education. Its not punctuality class, and after this email the only life lesson that she walked away with is that authority is blind, and does not care if you’re actually trying, just if you do what they ask when its convenient for them.

    1. Nope, you’re right. Some Professors believe their own press and think that their “Universe” is all that exists and they are the Gods who everyone else should bow down to.

      Professors are Employees delivering the product (Knowledge) and Students are the Paying Consumers.

    2. I TOTALLY agree. I just posted a similar rant. I’m sick of all of this “would you show up to a meeting with your boss an hour late?” crap. This student clearly cares about her education and her future, or she wouldn’t take the initiative to “shop” for a class that will best fit her needs.
      This professor is just a butt-hurt egoist using his authority to instill fear into all of his students by making a humiliating public example out of this student’s “disruption”.

    3. You get the grade if you do the work which the professor deems worthy of earning that grade. Degrees are not held hostage – you don’t have the right to a degree if you don’t do the work. Sometimes, doing the work is showing proper classroom conduct and following rules. Sometimes, rules are strict due to some students taking advantage of less strict ones. You say that education is not an obligation, but it is, if you attend a university. You are obligated to do some particular in order to prove a level of competency to get a degree. No, education is not obligatory if you do not go to school. Then you won’t have to show up for class on time. If you want to get a good grade of a class, sometimes you have to show up on time. If it’s a requirement you can’t handle, then it would mean you can’t handle showing up on time for jobs, meetings, etc. Those can have schedule conflicts, too, after all.

  122. They’re BOTH entitled cowards writing snarky emails for the sake of their own self-satisfaction. This entire interchange should have occurred face-to-face. They might have had a chance at finding some middle ground.

    1. What would the middle ground be? The student should have argued for the professor to change his rules, and the professor would agree to treat the student specially and change his rules for that student in future? It would only matter if the student were in the class. The student emailed the professor because there was nothing to be gained by that student anymore, and the professor answered with sincere advice regarding the mistake the student made (whether by attending class late or by sending the initial email). And anyway, in my experience, if the professor is willing to say these things in an email, he is also willing to say them in person.

  123. Here’s a brilliant idea: email the professor prior to the course and request a syllabus or reference text. Or, even better, meet with them prior to the course to discuss the content. A face to face meeting will allow you to build rapport and make an educated decision regarding the course. I do this all the time for my graduate engineering courses.

  124. This customer/not a customer argument has come up repeatedly, and it’s misleading. When people say “students are customers”, they don’t mean (most people wouldn’t understand them to mean) only that they literally pay for a service; rather, they are making an analogy between the students and certain kinds of customers – the kinds we think of when we say, “the customer is always right” – the customers of restaurants, or interior decorators. It’s this analogy that is wrong. Even though technically a student may pay for a service, or someone else may pay for it on his or her behalf, this doesn’t mean that the rules governing your relationship with your waiter are the same as the rules governing your relationship with your professor. In order for college education to work, professors need to have a certain kind of authority, which students must respect (by the same token, there need to be checks and balances to protect students from abuses of authority). Every time someone says, “students are customers, they pay the professors’ salary”, they are saying something that is true in a trivial sense but false and misleading in any important sense – and it is this latter, false implication that people who say this want other people to accept.

    1. Yes, Students ARE literally paying for a service/product. Being insulted publicly by an egotistical Professor is not how a business should be treating its customers.

      Are there lessons to be learned by the student in this incident about politeness and punctuality? Of course. Should the lesson be “taught” via humiliation and condescension? No.

      Professors are not Lord God Masters of the Universe even if they grow to feel that way in the Bubbles of their own making.

      1. Bryan, if students paid professors out of their pockets on a class-by-class basis, you might have a point. However, you are wrong. Universities and schools are not businesses. They are not there to sell you a diploma. You must EARN a diploma. In order to earn that diploma, you have to demonstrate that you have learned what’s necessary to have that piece of paper. Your money pays for the infrastructure and salaries of the experts that are trying to teach you that knowledge. You pay for the right to be on campus. You do not pay the professors. The university does. You do not have the right to attend any class you wish. You have to compete with other students for spots in those classes, and many times, there are prerequisites. You do not have the right to act as you wish in a professor’s classroom. If the professor has attendance or tardiness policies in the syllabus, you are required to adhere to what the professor wants. Not what you want. You are not the boss in the classroom. The professor is. The professor determines content, conduct, and sets requirements for outcomes. You, the student, follow these, or you are removed from the classroom or you fail. You do not pay salaries. You are not an employer. You control nothing. You dictate nothing. You get into a classroom, and if you’re smart, you respect the person in front of you.

        If you’re stupid, you act like you’re the employer. I had one – ONE – student tell me my first semester at a school that he paid tuition and therefore was my boss. I turned the projector off, got onto the school’s registration system, administratively dropped him from the class, and told him to get out. He appealed it all the way up the line and got stonewalled. As a teacher, I have the right to determine what constitutes a disruption in my classroom, and to eliminate those disruptions. My administration backed me to the hilt, and most administrations would. And you know what? It was the first day of class in a high-demand class, and another student took the opportunity to register and jump right in to take his place.

        Universities receive money from a wide array of sources, much more than tuition. The Federal and state governments put money in. Federal grants-in-aid pay for supplies, some portions of research professors’ salaries, and infrastructure costs to the university. Capital campaigns draw in millions of donor dollars per year to many universities. Students definitely do not pay their professors’ salaries. This is a grave misconception, and a gross oversimplification.

        I think it’s safe to assume that your position would be that since you, the taxpayer, pay taxes, that you are the employer of any given government employee, and are therefore the boss of any given government employee. Tell you what. Stroll onto a military base sometime, and tell the nice men at the gate that you’re their boss and that you want to be catered to. See how far that gets you. Your taxes pay for national parks. Go into the Grand Canyon National Park, light a bonfire, and drink beers around it. Hey, it’s YOUR park, right? See how quickly you end up slammed in jail. And, when you get slammed in jail, be sure to remind the guards that they draw government salaries and are therefore YOUR employees. Be sure to keep that attitude rolling when you tell the judge that you’re his boss because you pay taxes. After you serve a considerable time for vandalism and contempt, you can come back and tell me how wrong you are.

        Not everything is a business. Not all services that you pay for make you a customer, or make you the boss. If you think that, then you’re the one in the bubble.

      2. hear, hear, mr anonymous! well said.

  125. Kid’s a fool, professor’s a jerk who saw an opportunity. That simple. Both sound like lousy people to be around. “Business leaders” of tomorrow my ass.

    1. “Business leaders” of tomorrow my ass.

      Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that they will not be business leaders? I’d put my money on them being so! Have you hung out with some of that crowd?!

      I’m totally trolling on you. :) I’ll shut up now…

  126. Maybe the Professor is a dick. Maybe he’s in the wrong. But guess what? That student just got a lesson on what the real world is like. You are going to have bosses, co-workers and clients that are also assholes. You either figure out how to navigate it or you fail. Life is not fair. Grow up and cope. I bet this student is sharp enough that he/she will get something valuable out of a mistake that perhaps a lot of people could make, but that he/she will certainly not make twice.

  127. AS A JUSTICE ON THE SUPREME COURT I WOULD NEVER HAVE ALLOWED A LAWYER TO SHOW UP LATE FOR COURT WITHOUT PERMISSION GIVEN IN ADVANCE BECAUSE OF SOME UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCE. CLR

    1. First of all, you’re not a SC Justice. Second, this is a CLASS that this student is paying for, not a trial.

      1. It doesn’t matter if they are paying for it or not. The prof is allowed to have rules of behavior for the classroom and to uphold them.

  128. It’s the first day of class. That day can always be a bit confusing. Relax. If the student turns out to be a flake, let him/her flunk out. If the student turns out to be bright and hardworking, then give him/her a good grade.

    1. The student wasn’t confused. The student was a flake already and had to deal with the consequences of that. And even this student could have quietly left the room, not sent a presumptuous email to the professor, come to class on time the next week, and received a good grade for the course. That final outcome was not impossible.

    2. The kid is an MBA student, so they have, presumably, been to at least one college level class before. The first day of class is not confusing. This student is an idiot and the professor could have been a bit more professional. But if I had a dollar for every time I wanted to give someone the “personal responsibility” speech to a student, I’d be rich.

  129. A lot of people are asserting that students are customers. In American capitalist terms, the student is paying for a product or service–either way you want to look at it. The student being the customer does not mean they can get whatever they want, though. This student bought the NYU “product,” and is entitled to a refund if he doesn’t like the product. But as long as a student is signed up at a college, they will get the product that that particular college provides. Personally, I would not want to pay for an education that taught me to have zero accountability for my plans and actions. Just my 2¢.

  130. That professor can suck my cock lol.

  131. Here’s the main problem for me: This is a GRAD student at the NYU Stern School – quite prestigious – this implies a level of intellectual maturity that itself would imply a capability to communicate. And in doing exactly that, I first point to WHAT was communicated:

    “(2) considering that it was the first day of evening classes and I arrived 1 hour late (not a few minutes), it was more probable that my tardiness was due to my desire to sample different classes rather than sheer complacency.”

    Umm, what? “…more probable…” This student actually believes that the professor, upon encountering this student entering his class an hour late, pondered the list of possibilities as to the reason for such an interruption, and should have naturally concluded – out of ALL possibilities – that he/she MUST have been sampling other classes – it’s the ONLY possibility! How could he NOT have just KNOWN that? It was so obvious!

    Second, as a grad student, the grad program sets your schedule of classes each semester – which means this was just going to be one of the rare available elective credits that can be fit into what is likely a grueling grad schedule. So this student is going through all this likely for an elective, and expects the professor to just accommodate the student’s whimsical audition process of class selection…

    Professor didn’t necessarily need to be so profanely blunt, but the student needs to grow up…

  132. Simple – This behavior by the student was unacceptable. If the professor were his boss, would he walk into a meeting an hour late? If he were a client, would he do the same thing? No!!!! And if the student does not realize that – then he does not belong in a graduate program.

  133. Gawd, all of you sound like a bunch of whiny b*tches. Seriously, the “disruption” this /may/ have caused would literally be less than a second if the professor would just let the student come in and take a seat in the back of the room. Most students in the class probably wouldn’t even have noticed this student coming in late. Instead, it was the /professor/ that decided to disrupt his own class to reprimand this student. I’ll bet that most of you complaining about what a “huge disruption” she caused, or how “rude” she was have never been to a class in a university. When people come in late, it doesn’t disrupt a damn thing unless the professor lets it- I guarantee you she didn’t come stampeding in with crash cymbals.

    And for all of you saying “would you show up to a job an hour late?” Guess what: A LECTURE CLASS ISN’T A JOB. This student is paying for the opportunity to gain the best education she possibly can for her chosen career. It’s OKAY for students to “shop” around a class or two to make sure that they /are/ getting the best education they can for their particular career goals. Unfortunately, this professor decided to be a dick, and he is subsequently causing potential harm to this young woman’s prospective education by not allowing her to see if his class would be a fit for her.
    And yes, she /could/ have attended a different class each week. She /could/ have emailed the TA beforehand. But she didn’t. The professor reacted (harshly), and she is now dealing with the consequences. It was totally appropriate for her to write her email expressing her opinion on the matter.

    Her letter was polite, eloquent, and conveyed her valid point. His letter was condescending, elitist, arrogant, and at points vicious.

    And by the way: I’m a teacher too. $hit happens. Kids come in late. Kids leave early. Kids don’t always tell you these things. If you let something as trivial as somebody showing up late to class disrupt your teaching, no matter what age level you are teaching, then you aren’t a very good teacher. It’s a testament to poor management skills, poor attitude, and even poor policy- he could have NO idea why any student would ever show up late. Maybe their car broke down, or their was an accident slowing down traffic. Should they be denied the opportunity to attend the last half-hour of a class that they are paying for because of external forces hindering them from arriving on time?
    And if arriving late to anything for any reason means you “don’t care” or “aren’t professional”, then I sure as hell hope none of you have ever been late to anything ever for any reason at all, because if you have, then you’re a bleeding heart hypocrite.

    1. How elitist of people to want respect.

      1. How disrespectful of people to walk quietly into the back of a lecture hall. *yawn*

    2. The professor very likely had problems with tardiness before. It sets a very poor classroom tone when people come and go as they please. It makes the class seem as though it is not to be taken seriously. And arguments about excuses are not very useful. Sometimes strict policies are there for a reason. If the student had car trouble or medical trouble, then the consequences would have been the same. The student is not merely paying for the information in the class but also the class policies.

      You use the term “kids.” Graduate students, at a good institution, are typically seen more as professionals at that point in their education than as “kids.” If this were an undergraduate class, then it would be a slightly different matter. As it is, graduate school is difficult, and it should be difficult in order to maintain its value.

      The problem with the student’s letter is the presumption that he’she has more insight than the professor. Trying to teach your professors is just a bad idea if you are a student. It really does, in fact, show a lot of disrespect.

    3. Thank you, John. Your comment is spot on.

      You’re right, the classroom is not a job- for the student, but it is for the lecturer. Indeed, the professor is not the student’s *direct* employee, and articulating exactly what the rights of students are due to their indirectly paying at least a portion of the lecturer’s salary are not necessary, as the entire metaphor is inept.

      Both parties also seem to enjoy the cowardice of email.

      In the end, the one thing the student learned is that this particular class may not be one he/she wishes to attend.

  134. Prof. Galloway’s perfectly pithy and comically constructive reply would validate my hopes for the next generation… If I had any, or they deserved any. As I am deeply, intimately acquainted with their overarching worthlessness, stupidity and dipshititude, however, I must, regrettably, deem this as pissing in the wind. Brave, bold, beautifully stated… But ultimately useless urination, all the same. The good Professor is a single salmon struggling against an overpowering current of vacuosity and feckless fuckupedness.

    1. And what does that say about your generation that raised us to be “worthless, stupid dipshits”?…….

      1. That we didn’t beat you enough, expect enough of you, or require you to transcend your permanent adolescences.

    2. I am currently a university instructor in this same “younger” generation. I quite agree with the professor. So hello, I’d like to introduce myself, evidence against your generational argument.

      You may not have hope for me, but I have hope for you. Good luck transcending your own permanent adolescence soon!

      1. Congratulations on proving the exception to the rule. But don’t tell me that you gaze out upon the vast and irredeemable sea of vanity, self-obsession, ignorance, apathy and responsibility-avoidance that is the under-twenty-five generation with ANY degree of confidence, reverence, or, even, tolerance. They are, to an oppressive certainty, very nearly uniformly a gaggle of grasping, mewling, helpless, useless, brainless twits, overconfident in their haphazard so-called “education”, brimming with mistakenly perceived worth, devoid of any but the most locust-like purpose, and utterly without work ethic, gratitude, humility, modesty, or value. They are a plague of boastful, boisterous boobs.

      2. My only issue is with a response to this message… it is not just the under 25… I know many people in their 30′s-40′s and 50′s that do everything they can to blame their short comings, mistakes, and faults on others. This “it’s someone else’s fault” mentality did not just magically appear. It was taught. Hell, look at congress; there is the epitome of this mindset and it has been going on for many generations!

  135. Isn’t this just an example of two people writing completely unnecessary emails to each other, in an attempt to bolster their own egos/justify their own misguided actions? I don’t see how the the situation necessitated (1) the student’s email to the professor to simply express their “disappointment” in the professor’s behavior after supposedly already registering for another class, or (2) the professor replying to the student’s email at all (not to mention forwarding it to the entire class) after finding out that the student had registered for another class and was no longer his student.

    I can’t seem to find – on either end of this correspondence – any evidence of genuine intention to guide, teach, or provide “feedback,” for or from either party. It reads to me, considerably similar to a conversation that might happen in a hypothetical high school cafeteria between to seventeen-year-old’s with advanced vocabularies.

    1. Just because a professor is teaching a student who is no longer his student, it means that it isn’t teaching? Getting advice from professors can sometimes be like pulling teeth, so even if it is harsh, it is honest and should help the student improve their conduct. He/She may encounter similar professors in his/her academic career.

      The student is also trying to teach the professor, though I tend to see that as presumptuous and a subversion of the standard relationship – it’s not something that should be viewed positively. Feedback is great for professors, but I have a feeling that the student’s attitude is nothing the professor has not seen before. In fact, the strictness of his policy may be a response to too many students arguing on behalf of their tardiness.

  136. Are people saying that professors should always be “nice” even when enforcing their minimum expectations for their classes? Either way he said he wanted to sample the class so he got his sample of it right there. If he thinks he can’t meet the minimum expectations for the class, he might as well just not take it and select from the other two he sampled. There’s not really much to say–you can’t expect all professors and all people you work with to be what you want them to be; the world isn’t as fair as that. You just do what you do best and make the best choices you can make. Not all of your expectations would be met but it would be your own decision whether to challenge yourself to adapt to your failed expectations or to just dwell in it for as long as you please, not like the latter choice would change anything except provide some empty self-satisfaction.

  137. A PharmD student | Reply

    The professor sounds like an entitled and insecure brat. Those 80 students must have a dismal attention span if they can’t handle an “interruption” so insignificant as the door opening and closing. Besides, there must be a thousand legitimate reasons for being 15 minutes late to a class, and it’s idiotic to deprive that student of the remaining hour or so of the lecture to satisfy your own self-righteousness. Then to e-mail that student’s response to an entire class? I can’t even comprehend the kind of arrogance it takes to muster up that kind of reaction

    I may have a somewhat warped conception of tardiness though, as I came and went whenever I pleased through my first 2 years or so of my undergraduate degree. I was forced to work full-time to pay for it all, so I didn’t have much of a choice. I even enrolled in 2 courses during the same time slot if I knew the courses would be easy enough. In lecture halls of 100 or sometimes 200 students, nobody seemed to notice or give a damn. I managed a chem B.S. cum laude regardless, and thankfully without encountering any professors like this.

    1. 1) The student was an hour late to class, not 15 minutes. And I’m not sure “legitimate” is a good description for tardiness. If the professor had exceptions to the tardiness rule, then perhaps that would be a factor; however, as the case stands, it is not. It’s a simple matter of the student’s ability to deal with consequences. The professor is not only teaching students, but training students, and if he feels that a certain level of tardiness is to be discouraged, then it’s completely within his rights to implement the rule in his class.

      2) Your comparisons to your undergraduate education are fine, but this was a graduate class. Typically, a higher level of conduct is expected at stage of the student’s education.

  138. The professors feed themselves from our tuition money man. Who do you think we’re getting all the loans for? Those dickheads. They should be more respectful because without us they can feed on shit.

    1. And where would students be without the professors? Without knowledge and certainly without degrees. When it comes to filling the jobs in whatever field, the professors are probably more qualified than students who haven’t been educated. Students need professors, too, I’m sorry to say.

      As it is, students pay money for the professor to teach them, however the professor teaches them. If they do not like a particular professor, then they should pay another professor to teach them. Then that professor would need to change teaching styles and standards. It seems, though, that this particular professor has no lack of students, so he is able to run his class as he sees fit. He does, after all, have other students in the class who are paying for his particular style of teaching.

      I guess I’m just not sure what makes students think they are better than professors? They are essentially the same in all qualitative regards, except that students have less education. So I’m not sure how they should have more power in the relationship.

    2. I get the sense you are about to graduate Magna Cum Douchebag.

  139. First, forget that this student is at NYU to become one of tomorrow’s “business leaders” – meaning that he should be training now by cutting people off from their livelihoods and hiring desperate workers in poorer countries under criminal working conditions, or just finding a free lunch in the FIRE sector, by stealing from pensioners or borrowing free money from taxpayer-schmucks and using it to speculate abroad.

    More importantly, did this professor stop to think that he is employed by a real estate corporati- I mean university that charges students $40k a year, on top of nearly $30k in living expenses? He’s not a “professor” in the sense of someone who teaches at an institution of higher learning in the majority of the world outside of the U.S., where education is financed by society as a whole in exchange for the societal benefits that inhere in having a well-educated population, and as such should be respected by students as a sacred bond between society and themselves – he’s a professor at a diploma mill that turns high school graduates into $150k+ debt peons. He should consider himself lucky that this student didn’t decide to use his classroom as a $5k toilet.

    1. “Diploma mill” – this is the notion that the professor is struggling against. Students feel they are paying for their degree, professors feel students are paying for an education. The administration is caught between the two ideologies, and it is there where the current battle on this issues takes place. I have colleagues who are told they are not allowed to fail students, whereas I at a different university will put extra time (my “free” time) into working with students to make sure that they learn what I think they should. Universities in the US are not entirely pointless, because professors are struggling to avoid that. If this professor gave up that fight and had no standards for his classroom conduct, then it would greatly devalue the worth of the institution.

  140. Unabashed Class Shopper | Reply

    So the professor is just in the wrong here. Lets compare their respective ways of handeling the situation. The students email was very polite, well written, and personal. The student did not bad mouth the prof to all of her friends, or post a scathing review on Rate my Prof, but rather approached a problem she had in respectful and calm manner. It is to her credit that she took steps to figure out why the prof dismissed her and instead of sending an angry email calmly reported what she saw as reasonable explanation for her actions and a problem with professors behaviour.

    In contrast we have the prof took this opportunity to exemplify almost all of the qualities purportedly lacking in the student. By emailing his response to everyone in the class the professor clearly failed at “having manners, [and] demonstrating a level of humility” and arguably also at respecting the institution. University should be about self motivated learning, a student who is willing to try multiple classes to see which ones (and which professors) speak to that student is exactly the kind of students most professors wish for. I guarantee you the same professor complains about the students who signed up for his class and barely care. Likely if more students took the initiative of the woman who found so unreasonable a much greater percentage of his (and all) classes would be filled with motivated and engaged students.

    Not only that, but his math is clearly off, which is always just sad. If she is sampling three classes, then the average time per class would be 35 minutes not 15-20 (allowing for 5 minute travel time) for a 2 hour night class. If it was like my night classes (3 hours, which I think is standard), she would have only left a single class, the odds being pretty good that she left during a break, hoping to make it into the next class during that ones break. His assumption that she would choose to spend the final hour in class smacks of the very arrogance he purports the student to have. Similarly his attempt to justify his behaviour using risk analysis is shoddy work, at my university at least the standard was to let students come in late, the assumption being they had a good reason for being late (especially an hour late). Thus the student was engaging in perfectly rational behaviour (of course it is possible that NYU business school has very different norms, in which case I would wrong in my assertion)

    Professors who don’t appreciate class shopping deserve every apathetic student they receive. Apart from that, the student may have had a highly legitimate reason (medical for example) reason for being an hour late, and having no way of knowing that the prof instituted such a policy would have shown up only to be casually rebuffed. For me this possibility is dramatically ruder than quietly sneaking into a class already in session. In my experience (including taking and teaching 3 hours classes), the only time students coming in creates a disruption is when a professor chooses to make an example of the student. Of course its possible she did come in a particular disruptive way, but based upon the tone of the email I expect not.

    1. The student took his/her time to teach the professor about teaching. I don’t know about you, but I consider that presumptuous. The student didn’t need to know why she was kicked out of class – if I came in late, and had done nothing else wrong, my tardiness would be the most likely reason by far.

      Why is class shopping frustrating for professors? Well, perhaps because when students are not in their class, particularly on the first day, they miss information that is fundamental for the course. When you spend an hour teaching information to everyone who came on-time to the class, it is frustrating to teach it later to the one student who was late. It would have been far more appropriate for the student to email the professor beforehand regarding her plan to shop for classes and arrive to class late. The tardiness policy on any other day is also sound. If the student has a medical problem and misses an hour of class, then the student must face the consequences of that, whether it is missing an hour or all three hours. Life comes with consequences, many of them unfortunate.

      1. Unabashed Class Shopper

        So you are seriously arguing that it would less work for the professor to receive emails from EVERY student who was thinking of taking the class and spend time composing responses to each of them (presumably with individualized questions about the nature of the course), than to possible have to reteach an hour of class to the few students who cared enough to search for classes they were truly passionate about. Similarly, it would have been far more disruptive for the professor to create a list of all the students (even if it was a list of 1) who said they wanted to shop the class, and then compare names with students when they entered. A reasonable amount of leniency during the shopping period both encourages academic engagement and saves every needly emails.

        In this particular case the student seemed motivated to learn, had she chosen to take the class, I suspect she would have found out the missed information from fellow students rather than using the professors time, acknowledging reasonable that it was her choice to miss the first hour (this is based on the fact that she asked around and discovered the late policy before emailing the professor).

        Lastly, I truly don’t understand the logic behind punishing someone with medical problems who missed a single hour of class by forcing them to miss the rest. Of course life has consequences, but that doesn’t give anyone the right to create unnecessary ones.

  141. School is not the same as shopping at Target. And civilized people do not walk in on other people like that. It is disrespectful to every one in the room. Whiny brats, all of you, incompetent whiny brats siding with the kid. You all should grow up. You are so privileged to be going to a high end school in the first place. Me me me me me. Schools, churches, and the government are different. And one reason we have higher education is to show you nit-wits that money is not god.

  142. Reblogged this on JAPANsociology and commented:
    With a new academic year starting this week, and students scurrying into class late on the very first day, here’s a reminder to get to class on time. I’ve had students walk in 30, 45, even 60 minutes late … something I would never have dared to do as a student.
    Although I have to admit that as soon as I give the “get to class on time or else” speech, I will inevitably struggle to make it to class on time the following week. It’s karma coming to get me.
    So get to class on time … or else you might get an email like this one.

  143. Calling out the Hater | Reply

    This professor reeks of misogyny. Our society is filled with arrogant idiots like this professor who take every opportunity to display their power. His utterly arrogant email was both rude and smacks of Patriarchy. My guess is that he would never do this to a male student. The victim in question should seek a reprimand for making this private issue such a public one, and would benefit from taking some women’s studies courses to study just why this over-dependence on “logic” is hateful.

    1. It’s a lucky thing for all of us that you know his motivations. Especially since the gender of the student seem ambiguous.

      And just because a woman is slighted does not mean that she was slighted because she was a woman. I, as a woman, would never dream of complaining on grounds of sexism simply because I had angered a professor.

    2. Let us put it this way.

      If you were the teacher, and a student walks into your classroom that late, would it offend you? Probably so.

      This has nothing to do with gender or power, but mutual respect.

      If a teacher does not reprimand a student for such a disrespectful act, then what does this say about the professor?

      It indicates to the remaining students that the professor is a push-over.

      No one has the accurate perspective to chime in on this argument until they have stood in front of a class.

  144. I don’t know what she was expecting from a stern business school.

    1. Oh, well played. Very well played, indeed.

  145. Seriously, this is how profs spend free time? Not to mention how many grammatical errors are in these posts! Try teaching, and this comes from a fellow teacher. You two are the example of why educators in this country get ostracized.

  146. Perhaps there is just as much decorum at NYU’s business school, from students and professors, as there is at the lowest regarded schools. The fact that this showed up on a public blog to be posted on should be unseemly for professor, student and NYU. Finally the pretentiousness of the statement that being admitted into a well regarded business school has deemed someone a future business leader is ludicrous. People who actually get out there, work hard and make the right business decisions will be our future business leaders. No classroom can teach someone actual business experience.

  147. As a professor at a large state university, I can say this: “kids these days” are just fine. Yes, every so often, there’s one who doesn’t respect the institution, or the rules, or whatever. I suspect this is no different than when I was a student oh so many years ago. A huge problem with those who don’t respect the rules–no one has called them on their behavior consistently. So, kudos, Professor G. (Remember folks, this email wouldn’t have happened if the student hadn’t been so ‘helpful’ in the initial email.) On the other hand, well, it was a heavy hand. I once emailed a student who had missed class too often, and received a sincere apology and the explanation that she didn’t realize anyone even noticed whether she was in class or not. Professor G’s student doesn’t sound particularly alienated, but anytime a student is falling out of line, I am interested in why. Sometimes they are jerks, just like some of my colleagues.

    And really–other profs here–you seriously don’t know how to get students to stop talking? I just stop speaking and stare at the perpetrators, saying I’ll continue when they finish their conversation. Works every time.

  148. All analogies with the first day of work and all “life is tough” wisdom apply only if the grace period to shop around for classes assumed by the student is not a policy in effect. And judging by the response of the professor, there is no lack of such policy, otherwise he should have taken the time to indicate it just as much as he took the time to offer life lessons and to indicate the logic and behavior of the student. If the policies of the school entitle the student to shop around the first day of classes, then there is no self-entitlement on the part of the student and the professor’s thoughts should have been addressed to whatever respective body rather than the student and the rest of the class. It is the professor who is full of self-entitlement shit by refusing to shed the authority of the professor and addressing the problem for what it is: administrative rather than disciplinary.

    None of which is to say that if such a grace period exists, the student does not have to be prepared in advance about what classes to attend, but only that the disruption of class under this period merits more grace than terseness.

  149. Reblogged this on Alea iacta est..

  150. The student was humiliated and felt they needed recompense (you were mean, and as such lost a student.) The professor is equally as immature and felt they needed to affirm their status. Each of these individuals are of the same blood. I don’t applaud either of them. A fair dose of humility would serve each one well.

  151. [...] Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sh*t together”–Things Doanie Likes [...]

  152. Why do you assume the student is female (“the professor told HER to leave”)? The professor’s letter indicates to the contrary (“the send button on HIS laptop”). For obvious reasons, this careless assumption on your part is irritating.

    1. Keira knightly is a liberal.
      They all think the same .
      The professor is likely lib to but his heart realizes full lib like Keira and some of you others is just asinine. Least I hope he gets it now , with the rude behavior he has seen by the ilk of his youngers.

      1. What in the blathering idiot are you talking about?

  153. The article should be called “Disrespectful student gets put in his place” not “Mean professor…” There is no respect in our society anymore. The professor has a large class to deal with – even 15 minutes late is disruptive to the rest of the class. People need to be 15 minutes early, not plan to be late. Then, the email sent seemed to indicate that the professor would be deprived of this brilliant student – really? Some 20-somethings need to realize that professors have already earned their MBA or PhD – and that they, themselves, have not. They are there to learn – respect is part of learning.

  154. Student is not the customer. Society is.

    Unless you are saying that the university was 100% built using private funds.

    It is probably not my place to say this, for my tardiness is legendary, however i think the professor is right. Or at least not in the wrong. He has the right to expect civil behaviour from his students. Other professors have the right to tolerate the lack of it.

    1. The behavior of the student was not uncivil by merely showing up late. If the student had shown up making noise yelling out being disruptfull; that would have been uncivil. This student merely showed up to make an informed decision (probably about the professors teaching style) on whether to take the class. There is nothing wrong with “shopping around” for the right fit for you this is a decision to ensure success in the class. The University needs to adopt and make all professors adhere to an open door policy to some extent IMHO.

      1. Open Door policies do not mean walk in any time you feel like it. They mean that any one is welcome and will be heard. The student was impolite by common courtesy and classroom rules that were set. Please see how sampling a class should be done in other posts. Showing up 40 minutes into a lecture is not the way… it breaks the stride of the lecture, and may cause those that have been in attendance the entire time to lose track of what has been transpiring.

      2. Degree of uncivil is relative. However, do note that random students streaming in and out throughout the first 1 hour of the lecture will be irritating, to say the least. Especially if the class is small.

        Hence i believe the professor is still within his rights to make a point that students do not come late for his lessons.

  155. Maybe I am speaking in a “Gibbsesque” way, but I believe that the professor was intending this to be a wake up call to the student much as a slap to the back of the head and decided that this far into the game (graduate studies), one that many others may need to experience. Why would he not respond to this student to explain not only why the action was wrong to do in class, but any other aspect of life? For those that have said, “it only interrupts for a moment and move on;” that is not the case at all. It interrupts the flow of the lecture and can even cause a subject change. Let alone why would it be ok for this student to break a standing rule and not others. People like this are one of the reasons others have to wait for 2hrs in a doctors waiting room because they do not have the courtesy to be on time for their appointment.
    For those complaining about this generation or that… The generations before have plenty of their own screw ups (past wars, the state of the environment, the economy, etc.); just as those coming up will make plenty more, I am sure due to the two main syndromes that are continuously growing in this wonderful country (I am not saying this last lightly… I love America, but fear what it is slowly becoming): 1) no one is ever at fault apparently, it is always the parents, the TV, the music, video games, books… anyone or anything else’s fault but the individual that does an action. 2) all or nothing… am so sick of this mentality that if one person screws up everyone has to pay for the idiot; look at how many school children can no longer take an aspirin at school with out a parents permission, a doctors note, and a nurses watchful eye due to illegal drugs in our schools; or can no longer take a plastic knife to school to spread peanut butter because it is a weapon… Do not even get me started on the gun issues this country is facing.
    Hold individuals responsible, people, not everybody else that is courteous and law abiding… for godsake, the student made a mistake and compounded it by writing a thoughtless message. The professor responded in an unprofessional, but well stated message back. I see nothing wrong with putting blunt, forthright information out there that might wake one person up. More than likely though, the student huffed and deleted it think they were greatly abused.

  156. I have a slightly different spin:

    1) Let’s give the student credit for being “resourceful.” “Shopping” classes is very creative and certainly good preparation for a life in the business world where being self-serving, opportunistic, and predatory without conscience are prerequisites to success.

    2) For this student to send the email follow-up was pretty foolish though. If you are going to be a Taker… learn to not ask for permission (before or after). While I don’t subscribe to this way of living personally, I’ve noticed that many current business leaders are heralded as heroes for being and acting just this way.

    3) So really, we could say that Flagrantly Tardy (student) is actually astute in following the business role models our culture holds up as “successful” and thereby worthy of emulation. Right? Sad but true.

  157. The professor was pretty “stern” about the whole thing, wasn’t he??

  158. I have been in the field of education for almost a half-century and I’ve never heard of students “shopping” for classes. That’s ridiculous. I’m siding with the professor and am glad he works at a school that allows him the freedom to respond as he did.

    1. I feel he was arrogant and abused his position and the student has every right to shop around for a class if they are not sure if they will be interested in it or not or even mesh with the professor. This is called making an informed decision and says a lot about their decision making skills IMHO.

    2. At Harvard, the first week is dedicated to shopping, and to the best of my knowledge it is the same for most, if not all, of the Ivy League schools.

  159. Came here to comment on how both the student and professor need social skill lessons, then discovered that the real outrage here is the dismal stupidity displayed by a lot of these previous posts.

    So many self-important, insolent morons. Apalling.

    1. I think this is a University issue and I also feel that the professor abused his position IMHO.

  160. [...] Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sh*t together”–Things Doanie Likes [...]

  161. The way I see it, the student is the customer and is paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a class. Maybe they had a bad experience with professors,like myself, and wanted to ensure they paid for the right teacher. I see no problem with this if they were quite and polite when exiting and entering the classes…

    Much like in the business world, professor, you can get interviewed at several jobs (shop around) to see which one fits you best. That is what the student was doing. YOU need to get your sh** together and just learn to “drop it” and let students be students… Or in this case, let customers be customers.

  162. I’m with the teacher on this. This person clearly has grown up “privilaged”, shall we say. This kind of upbringing that does not accompany lessons or a general sense of responsibility or fear of consequences. She grew up doing whatever the hell she wanted, and if someone didn’t like it, her folks would clean it up or she could just complain to said defending party and she’d get her way paved for her.

    My brother’s married to a bitch like that. We need less of that and more teachers like Galloway.

    Or we need to show more praise to the teachers that are already like Galloway, but we don’t acknowledge them, because the pro-corporate, pro-private education media outlets are flooding our ears with messages of “Teachers are paid too much.” “They’re done at 3 in the afternoon.” “It’s a fat-cat salary.” “The teachers unions are abusing their privilages” “they’re making our kids stupider.”

  163. Maybe my graduate school was just an outlier, but I had a syllabus ( with all class policies) , required text lists and reading assignments in my email box a month before class even started. We had assignments due the very first day of class. I don’t understand how a graduate student doesn’t know what classes they intend / need to take ?

    1. This student was not signed up for the class merely observing to see if they wanted to take the class. This would make them 1 not late and two not privy to the rules or a syllabus which only students receive on the first day of class which is what this was. There are many graduate students who are not sure of a certain professors teaching style and if they would benefit from learning under them my husband being one of them when he was in graduate school. This is an arrogant professor with a sense of empowerment which he abuses IMHO.

  164. [...] Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sh*t together” [...]

  165. i love that nearly everyone (including the author of the article) is referring to this student as a female when it the professor clearly references them as male in the response back.

    1. except, of course, for the people that already brought this point up…numerous times.

      1. Gender does not matter it is the point behind the feud that does. The University is at fault IMHO.

      2. Seriously, the University is at fault?? What the… ? The prof needed to be a bit more professional in his response, but the student was clearly in the wrong. Again do not care how much money is paid to or by whom!!! Common courtesy, people, for god sake, common courtesy!

  166. Student was a bit of a prick, professor was a much bigger prick.

  167. I have been reading the comments on here and I am wondering what happened to common courtesy and respect. I am 60…yes, I guess that makes me “old” I have managed retail, I have owned my own business, I volunteer at numerous places in my church and community,lately I have gone back to school. None of my professors would stand for this behavior. How much can you learn about a class or a professor’s style of teaching in 20 minutes? I call the BS rule…if it looks like BS, and smells like BS, it most likely is…BS. Most college professors have rules, …heck, LIFE has rules usually they are based on common courtesy and responsibility. If this student showed up at a job where she worked for me an hour late she would be fired unless she had a damned good excuse.

    1. She is not showing up late she is observing and this is on the shoulders of the University in my opinion. They should have all professors adhere to an open door policy for students. I know there are students that do not have to sit in on a class and pull straight A’s (online students, independent study) I myself know within one email from a teacher if they are going to mesh with me, not all personalities do, and regardless of popular belief a professor can and will hold whether they like a student personally in regard as to whether they will allow extra effort to be recognized or ignored. There is no BS here the professor is clearly arrogant and rude she was not showing up late she was observing and this should be on the University for not slotting in times for observation of courses. They need to rethink their policies. It is bettter to know before signing up for a class whether or not you are interested in it. Wanting to make an informed decision says a lot about her character IMHO.

      1. SHE WAS LATE!
        Sampling is fine. Show up when the class starts, leave when it ends. The round of lessons (I.E. if it is a Mon, Weds, Fri class) go to the other class you are interested in and not this one. THAT is how you sample a class. It is polite, non-disruptive, and gives the student a clear understanding of how the professor and workload are!

        Remind me the next time we have an appt together to show up 40 minutes after we said we’d meet and tell you I’m not late.

  168. As a former college student I agree that it’d be nice and maybe even fair to be given the chance during the first week to assess classes but you can’t. Lesson one at school: LIFE IS NOT FAIR. Get over it. We have to work within certain rules and parameters in our professional lives. Being disruptive to others for our own needs or in the name of is selfish.

  169. Wow, this is obviously an area that could benefit from some research! There are so many opinions. The definitions of civility, respect for others and common decency have all been some how changed by recent generations, as I am sure they have changed in previous generations. When I attended undergrad every professor made up their own rules for their class, some locked the door, some told students to leave if they were late, some didn’t care one way or the other, but as a STUDENT who potentially could get kicked out of school or receive a poor grade in class, I watched my behavior. I had respect for my professors and did not get to express my side of things. Open Door policy and openness of a professor, doesn’t mean I get to say what I want to them. What the professor said, is what I did. If I were to say something, that could be considered mouthing back and being disrespectful. When a professor, administrator or anyone walked by on the sidewalk, we acknowledged them and said hello. From my own experiences now some students run into me on the sidewalk without looking up and without saying excuse me. Many students want to “make a deal” when it comes to their grade.

    I agree education is way overpriced, no one should leave school with a mortgage, but I would make sure I did my best to stay in school and finish. I wouldn’t want to sass mouth a professor, especially considering how much I am paying. Unfortunately, education is a service we pay to have someone else tell us what to do. It sucks, but that’s how it works. You don’t get to buy your grade. You are paying for an overpriced seat, in an overpriced classroom, at an overpriced school, to have an “underpaid” professor tell you what to do. Get used to it or drop out. Your choice.

    1. I am one of those people who is going to leave school with the equivalent of a mortgage. I went to a state undergrad to “save money,” I’m now at a state law school (not in my home state). I have always been respectful of professors and the process. However, the law school experience has made me question whether “it sucks, but that’s the way it is” is good enough anymore. I am paying a significant amount of money for an education that is not worth all that much in today’s market and I am being, effectively, psychologically tortured to get it. I am forced to compete against my friends/colleagues for grades in curved classes, and in one class, we’re being asked to grade each other with regard to class participation. In a curved class, it’s pretty clear that the incentives are misaligned with regard to honesty.

      While I agree with the professor that it’s rude to interrupt a class and ruder still to write her professor an e-mail admonishing him/her for his/her policies, it was unnecessary for the professor to write the “get your shit together” letter. And e-mailing it to the entire class was just a way for this person to assert his/her power by humiliating the student.

      When college was indeed a privilege– when families did not risk their financial futures to send their children to be educated– the dynamic was rightly different. Now, however, that is not the case. A good friend of mine works 2 jobs and is still paying off her student debt from undergrad (and that was 8 years ago). She can’t afford to buy a car less than 10 years old, she can’t afford a nice place to live, and every time something bad or unexpected happens, she is in danger of her credit taking another hit because she might not make the student loan payment on time. It’s wrong.

      So if this girl wanted to shop around a little to see which class was going to be worth her astronomical NYU tuition and possibly decades of paying it off… can we really blame her?

      1. Wow telling someone to drop out? There is no wonder the youth of our world are in serious trouble. Education is very important and people should not have to get used to being treated as they are not worthy because they are not as educated as a professor. I think some professors are just plain arrogant and let their degrees go to their heads. That being said they deserve to be underpaid as to any other teachers that can not find it in themselves to treat people with respect. He could have asked her to please step out of the class with him and addressed it with her without embarrassment which is why I am sure she emailed him. I am going to be one of those people leaving with a mortgage as well an my husband is a professor and would never treat a student with the amount of disrespect this professor has shown. He is clearly arrogant and self centered. I think all college professors should have an open door policy with their students is this not the reason they became professors in the first place in order to teach and let others learn from their expertise? Most do but there are many that do it clearly for the money and those are the ones who need to get it together!

      2. Okay, saying “drop out” was a bit harsh…”tongue in cheek”…I meant there are always other choices. I do feel some things shouldn’t be up for debate. A professor’s teaching philosophy is one. Arguing with this professor, whom she didn’t take anyway won’t get her anywhere, MBA programs are often limited with professors one can take anyway, and let’s hope she didn’t have to take the professor in the future. She was attempting to shame the professor or put the professor in their place. That was wrong and unacceptable, and frankly couldn’t possibly get her anywhere! When did it become acceptable to question the authority of a professor, or does the professor have any authority? The professor just turned it back on her. I felt she was saying, “How dare this professor tell me to leave, who in the hell does he think he is?”. I don’t care how much someone has to pay, they don’t get to make up their own rules. The value of their degree becomes meaningless. Then it becomes, “Oh you bought your degree”. Part of “earning” a degree is learning these important life lessons and yes, putting up with some things you’d rather not. That is very true of life as well!

        Letting go of the little things can often lead to bigger problems, so sometimes it is the principle of matter. He could have said for the 1000 time, “Miss how can I help you”? Then she would’ve thought it is okay to interrupt every class in such an ignorant (no intent to do harm) but nevertheless disrespectful way. So her ego got bruised a little. I bet she won’t try that again and neither will any of the people who took his class. I do agree the whole system could use an overhaul.

        We all have definitions of what we consider “rude”. I consider it rude when someone walks against the traffic on the sidewalk, or when slow people don’t stay to the right. (People from Europe who come here may differ in their opinions), though I do hope they learn our customs here. I consider it rude when I say hello and someone doesn’t say it back. I consider it rude when someone won’t take their hand off of their phone for the minute it takes to turn their blinker on, all the while holding up traffic. I see so many accidents where someone is on the phone crying because they hurt someone else; all because they couldn’t be bothered to pay attention and put both hands on the wheel. They never thought to themselves that “not paying full attention to their surroundings” could hurt someone else. I find it rude when one student feels their situation is more unique or important than anyone else. I find these things rude, because the individuals doing these things aren’t considerate of those around them. There seems to be is no civility with these instances. I find that very selfish. I might even think it is rude for a professor to tell me to leave a class depending upon the tone the professor used, but I don’t write an email to each one of those people. First, I’d be writing emails all day, everyday, LOL. I feel the student should have let this go instead she let her self righteous anger get the best of her, but the conversation it sparked is probably one that needs to happen for other issues that have been brought up from this regarding education, costs, issues of authority, respect, etc…. The professor gave a knee jerk reaction to this student, and most likely this professor became fed up, which puts the professor in the wrong. We all would like to send “those” kinds of emails, but we don’t because of what might happen.

        When some talk about entitlement, it doesn’t have to do with money. It has do with the idea, that some student feel “entitled” to explain or defend their side of a story instead of just taking what comes at them as “the law of the land”. I don’t find the professor telling her to leave too far out of the ordinary or too from that professor’s authority over their class. Then again these are just my opinions. Let’s hope something good comes from this :)

  170. [...] via Mean Professor Tells Student to “get your sht together” | Things Doanie Likes. [...]

  171. Carlton Johnson, LPA, MFP, ABA | Reply

    Considering what has been and will be said in the real world, “get your sh*t together” is rather polite in today’s business environment. I side fully with the professor and kudos to his method as this student-to-be-professional will see this entering a global workforce.

  172. I feel sorry for this generation of students. Their parents (my generation) raised them to be self entitled and narcissistic. But the students don’t/won’t see it. They won’t until they grow a few more decades in life. I’m sounding patronizing. I am. I blame my generation of parenting trying to help their children grow and know they matter but instead created entitled children who assume they come first regardless.

    It’s the same as a driver who misses their exit and instead of acknowledging their error they stop their car on the shoulder of the freeway and reverse…blaming everyone else for not slowing down to accommodate because they “missed their exit!” – start realizing even if you don’t know you did something wrong, there are others out there who you effect, when you drop a pebble in a lake, there is a ripple effect, and thousands of other stones rippling too honey. Newsflash, you are not the center of the universe. And even if you are the center of YOURS, you effect others. Take off the blinders! And please accept if you don’t travel, volunteer, step outside your comfort zone AND grow older in age and experience which includes acknowledging when you miss an exit that no matter how inconvenient the next exit is to get you back to where you are going – it was your mistake and you need to accept it not force the entire highway to accommodate you…you will continue to experience these hurdles.

  173. I fault the professor much more so than the student. The student is younger, less experienced, and less educated. Therefore, I give them more margin for error. However, the professor was out of line. The professor doesn’t have the authority to kick people out of his class. He may think that he does, and the students may never question that authority, but the bottom line is that if the student were to plop down into a seat and say “I’m not leaving”, there’s really nothing the professor could do other than to continue ranting (which would be unprofessional), cancel the class for everyone (which now punishes all of the other students), or take it out on the student’s grade (which is also unprofessional).

    If those emails are accurate, and unaltered, I also find more fault with the professor. The student’s letter was rather polite and professional. The professor’s letter was snarky and unprofessional. The student didn’t let it get personal, but the professor did. Again, given the age, experience, and education-level differences, the professor should have been the more professional of the two.

    If I were the student, I’d have taken a seat and called the professor’s bluff, just to make a point. Then, I would have withdrawn from the course to eliminate his ability to get revenge through the grading process.

    1. A professor very much does have the right to eject a student for not complying with rules of the classroom. If he did have to stop class to have it happen or even have to excuse the rest of the class, it only shows how self-important, pompous asses think they should get their way every time. Shocking news is… the world revolves around no single person. As I said, I agree the professors response was abrasive to say the least… but I can understand his sentiment and it does not detract from his message that the student needs to learn some manners.

      1. The professor doesn’t have the “right” to kick the student out of class. The professor only has “informal authority” to kick that student out of class. That authority only goes as far as the students allow. Most students will just adhere to the professor’s demands, but just because most do…that doesn’t mean the professor has that “right”. In that sense, the student also has the “right” to be in the class if they’re officially enrolled in it.

      2. Actually, “kdbroom”, the professor does indeed have the authority to dismiss a student from class. Your logic aligns with the very entitled logic of the student in question.

        Right now, the teacher in question is continuing to teach and made the right call.

      3. Actually “James”, the professor doesn’t. The professor doesn’t have any formal authority to kick a student out of a class to which they’re enrolled, especially BEFORE that student has even been made aware of any classroom rules the professor has established. If the student were to formally file a complaint, I guarantee that the burden of proof will be on the faculty member to show a) that the student was aware of the rule (which the story indicates they weren’t), b) that the student was disruptive to other students (and simply “walking in late” is not a reasonable measure of disruption), and c) that the professor didn’t have any other reasonable options to handle the situation.

        Your logic aligns with the very entitled logic of the professor in question. Right now, the teacher in question continuing to teach is immaterial. Just like the student should have had…that professor is entitled to some due process.

      4. Keep telling yourself this kdbroom. Honestly, it is no sweat off my back. In the grand scheme of things, I don’t place entitlement either way in this situation. I never would. The point is, that if the student wants to learn from a professor, then they must abide by the rules and reasonable conduct of the classroom.

        Walking into a classroom at a very late point in the class is disruptive and would fall under the general policies of the institution that all students are bound to. Furthermore, the student in question did this the (2) other classes. I can’t imagine what the student was thinking.

        Think long and hard about who you are defending. I would like to think you have already done this, so I’ll take your lack of understanding in this given situation as being brunt-headed and unreasonable or ungrateful.

      5. I’m defending a human being who was treated like crap. That student deserved better from someone who is supposed to be well educated.

    2. Furthermore, kdbroom, the fact that the professor is still teaching is relevant. Was there recourse on behalf of the institution? No. Why? Because the response was warranted.

      Part of teaching is telling students things they don’t want to hear. At certain points, the only way to do this where students will truly listen, is by the approach this professor took.

      This student needs to get their shit together and they needed to hear that.

      Feel as you may, and try to defend